Decline in MJ competitions?

[Gus]

One of the interesting things for me, that spoke volumes about the current view of dance competitions, is the lack of debate about the Blackpool champs … both before and after. There were a host of incidents/talking points this year, but a relatively small number of people posted.

The small numbers of couples entering Advanced, particularly the lack of instructors is worrying. There must be over 300 instructors in the UK, but how many were at Blackpool where the advanced section is arguably easier (i.e. not split between Advanced and Open). Its good to see plenty of couples entering intermediate … but it seems that fewer and fewer make the step up. Not having been for 4 years, the whole event seemed smaller, less people .... but thats just a subjective feeling.

There could be a few contributory factors: cost of entry; lack of recognised coaches; lack of clarity about judging; the plethora of weekend events; inability to find a dance partner ….. but the fact remains that there doesn’t seem to be the same buzz about the competition scene. I used to subscribe to the view that “All competitions are Evil” … but my view has been mellowed by seeing what an inspiration the best dancers can be and how much individual’s dancing can improve when they have a goal to aim for.

Has the time for competitions come and gone and now we’ll see a decline or is it down to the local teachers to encourage their dancers to raise their game. Don’t get me wrong, competitions are not for everyone, but they can be a truly inspirational platform

Of course … you may have the opinion that the competition scene is getting stronger ….

[Lee Bartholomew]

I can't really comment on whether comps are declining having only been to, entering (and winning ) one but I have not been to any venues with flyers on the tables promoting Comps, with the exception of Ceroc promoting Ceroc Champs.

Nor have I heard any teachers talking about them. I guess though that most independents aim more to get people through the doors and the club surviving than they do about getting skilled dancers trained up.

Another thing is maybe we are not embracing technology enough. If you look at WCS, they have all the showcases and most of the dances posted up on Youtube within a day or so, we have to wait x weeks for a dvd and no youtube postings.

[Yliander]

Another thing is maybe we are not embracing technology enough. If you look at WCS, they have all the showcases and most of the dances posted up on Youtube within a day or so, we have to wait x weeks for a dvd and no youtube postings.

Many of those clips aren't offically posted ....

[Lee Bartholomew]

Many of those clips aren't offically posted ....

I doubt they are but they still help to promote the comps.

Wasn't someone toying with the idea of a live web feed at one time?

[DavidB]

I think competitions have taken a knock from weekenders - especially the first year that Ceroc started with all theirs. There used to be only 5 times a year when you would get a lot of people travelling to dance (Franco's weekenders, Blackpool and Ceroc champs). Now a weekend with nothing on is the exception. However competitions seemed to have picked up again over the last year or so.

It was very noticable at Blackpool just how many people came to spectate. At the start of the DWAS, when all 250 competitors were lined up outside waiting to partner up, there were still lots of people in the room waiting for them to come in. I think the organisers said they had their best ever year for advanced bookings.

I think there may be room for something to encourage entries particularly at the higher level. I know a lot of good dancers who would like to do something, but don't want to commit to weeks or months of practice prior to the event. I'm just not sure of the best way of doing this.

[Minnie M]

It's a shame we can't combine them as they do in the States - i.e: workshops / privates / freestyle and of course the competition starting with Thursday night and ending Sunday late afternoon

[Gus]

It's a shame we can't combine them as they do in the States - i.e: workshops / privates / freestyle and of course the competition starting with Thursday night and ending Sunday late afternoon

Thats similar to what they do in New Zealand ... and they do it pretty successfully. However, not sure it would work here given all the other workshop weekenders. Personal view is that its down to grass roots interest .. or lack thereoff.

[NZ Monkey]

Thats similar to what they do in New Zealand ... and they do it pretty successfully. However, not sure it would work here given all the other workshop weekenders. Personal view is that its down to grass roots interest .. or lack thereoff.

To be fair though, national events in NZ are a rare thing. I think part of the reason they are so successful is due to the lack of alternatives. Even the champs are only held every two years, which helps make them more attractive to our Australian cousins.


It's hard getting the numbers to make events viable in NZ so a competition/workshop/privates/party combination is almost the only way to appeal to everyone. It's as much a case of necessity as it is of having a winning format. We've only got 4 million souls spread over more land than the British Isles after all......

[TA Guy]

It's a shame we can't combine them as they do in the States - i.e: workshops / privates / freestyle and of course the competition starting with Thursday night and ending Sunday late afternoon

Breeze ?
Fabulous weekender. My fav so far, great workshops, fantastic freestyles, privates, and I heard on the grapevine afterwards, some underground minor backstreet comp going on somewhere on the campus at the same time ?

[Minnie M]

Breeze ?
Fabulous weekender. My fav so far, great workshops, fantastic freestyles, privates, and I heard on the grapevine afterwards, some underground minor backstreet comp going on somewhere on the campus at the same time ?

Hmmmmmmmm.... not quite the same

The nearest we have is the WCS UK Champs this April, which I believe is based on the same context

[frodo]

Breeze ?
Fabulous weekender. My fav so far, great workshops, fantastic freestyles, privates, and I heard on the grapevine afterwards, some underground minor backstreet comp going on somewhere on the campus at the same time ?

Not sure if you can have a proper competition at a gender balanced event

I'm sure an underground minor backstreet comp is fine though.

[bigdjiver]

...Wasn't someone toying with the idea of a live web feed at one time?

That was a suggestion of mine. I would guess others had thought of it before I did. It was one of my schemes to promote Ceroc/MJ, as a precursor to getting them on TV.

[Jive Brummie]

I think it's down to saturation in the market...not from competitions, but from the hoofin' number of weekenders now available.

Yeah, it's great to have loads of options, but does it not become a little bit 'samey'? With only the name being changed.

The weekenders I've been on have been brilliant (cheers southport mob), but I think I've felt that way because, apart from southport, Melanie and I didn't used to go to any others. Same with the comp's. Scotland and Blackpool and that's it. Scotland for the ceroc-way, and Blackpool for that something a little bit special, (not that scotland wasn't). It used to have a great atmosphere with amazing dancers and now, although from what I hear the standard is still good, the top-boys and girls don't go anymore....they're all probably too busy teaching at flippin' weekenders!

For me Blackpool and the Chance2Dance event will always stand head and shoulders above any other competition. The reason being, I think it's a little more accessable than having to troup all the way to London and so attracts a wider cross section of dancer.

Comp's do need promotion but when teachers of the borg are to not mention any other 'code' then how do people spread the word?

Having said all the above, I have an uneasy feeling that modern jive is heading towards being a victim of it's own success...the model works...push, push, push...quantity increases, quality suffers! For me, that's been happening for a few years.

J

[Gus]

Comp's do need promotion but when teachers of the borg are to not mention any other 'code' then how do people spread the word?

I would have thought that the word had spread by now ... but you do have a good point. You would have thought that it would be in the best interests of the Dark Evil Empire to send its Stormtroopers in to capture all the Rebel Alliances silverware (OK ... maybe taking the analogy too far there).

However, its fair to mention that I'm not sure if the independents have done much better in promoting the competitions ... after all its not shekels in their pockets is it?


Final point .... contrary to some virulent rumours, I saw no evidence that Ceroc had actively stopped their instructors attending. There were at least 2 Ceroc cabaret teams and I saw at least 5 CTA instructors. Interesting though that few CTA troubled the judges in the freestyle though.

[Lory]

It's a shame we can't combine them as they do in the States -

Its not shame, as far as I'm concerned.

I don't really like people all that much, when they're in competition mode!

an underground minor backstreet comp is fine though.

Interesting though that few CTA troubled the judges in the freestyle though.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean?

[Gus]

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean?

Ahem ... they didn't make the finals. In the old days it was Sinmon & Nicole and Tom Baker who flew the flag for Ceroc. This yaer Tom wasn't competing seriously and Simon is no longer CTA (or so I've been told. If I'm wrong I apologise). You would have thought that CTA would have actively pushed CTA instructors to enter. Having said that, I'm not sure how many could compete at the top level. There are the likes of Emma, Paul Harris, Lisa, Lorna ... but do they ever compete in freestyles?

[Lynn]

I've only been to one comp (Britroc years ago) so maybe am not qualified to comment but IMO its been the increase in weekenders.

There is only so much time people can take off work (and most weekenders require a day or so) and more importantly - only so much money people are prepared/able to spend on dancing. With weekenders offering a lot more freestyle time than comps, and so many weekenders to choose from, I'm sure some dancers are choosing a weekender over a comp.

[robd]

Ahem ... they didn't make the finals. In the old days it was Sinmon & Nicole and Tom Baker who flew the flag for Ceroc. This yaer Tom wasn't competing seriously and Simon is no longer CTA (or so I've been told. If I'm wrong I apologise). You would have thought that CTA would have actively pushed CTA instructors to enter. Having said that, I'm not sure how many could compete at the top level. There are the likes of Emma, Paul Harris, Lisa, Lorna ... but do they ever compete in freestyles?

Sinmon? He'd like that, I am sure.

Paul H doesn't really compete in MJ and he no longer teaches for Ceroc.

Emma (P) was competing at Blackpool and won showcase I believe.

Lisa should compete but maybe lacks the confidence (or a suitably skilled partner) to do so.

[Cruella]

There are the likes of Emma, Paul Harris, Lisa, Lorna ... but do they ever compete in freestyles?

Paul has competed in the past, (usually with his friend Jack ), as has Lisa, but now they are usually seen judging.

[ducasi]

There are the likes of Emma, Paul Harris, Lisa, Lorna ... but do they ever compete in freestyles?

Lorna & Sam compete quite often – think they were in Blackpool last year. They didn't make it this year for lack of time, I understand.