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Thread: Producing a decent dance event video

  1. #61
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    Originally posted by martin McElroy
    Ceroc 2003, the new version of C2D 03 and MJC 6 DVD all have titles on them (shortcuts)
    The C2D 03 DVD I have doesn't have any titles - is there a new version available ? If so, can existing owners exchange their non-titled copies ?

  2. #62
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    Originally posted by Jon L
    to reply - the video has clips of people in the class, but unlike the others. The actual full routines that are taught in the class are not on until the very end which is slightly unusual.
    OK, hands up - I produced the MJC7 video/DVD this year. Being the first time I have done anything on this scale, I welcome feedback from anyone who has taken the time to watch my work and type a reply.

    As has been mentioned earlier in the thread, people buy these dance videos for a variety of reasons. Jive Bug decided that the videos of their Monster Jive Cocktail events should take the form of a diary of the event, trying to capture the spirit and mood of the day/weekend. It was for these reasons that I followed a similar format to that used by Martin on previous MJC videos. It is immediately clear from the running order printed on the back cover of the case what is on the video, with the teacher demonstrations of the routines they taught during the day being listed as the last thing on the tape / DVD.

    Lessons have already been learnt about the way the event was videod this year, and the way we video the teacher demos will be improved on next year if I am asked to produce it again.

    Point taken about camcorders going 'grainy' in low light conditions. Only one of the three cameras we used this year had a light on it. This is something I may review for next year as well, however the MJC videos are produced on quite a tight budget, so hiring additional lighting/sound/semi-pro cameras etc is probably going to be too expensive and would push up the production costs of the video. This year I just had to make do with the colour correction facilities in Premiere to brighten up the video ...

    BTW, the MJC7 video/DVD is correctly licensed with the MCPS. To any other video producers, I strongly recommend that you take a look at the MCPS website and license your products correctly. As Martin pointed out, any reproduction of another artists work, even just a few seconds of music as background music that people are dancing to, is considered piracy unless correctly licensed and leaves you open to potentially serious legal consequences.

    Rob C.

  3. #63
    Registered User Jon L's Avatar
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    Originally posted by rcoward
    OK, hands up - I produced the MJC7 video/DVD this year. Being the first time I have done anything on this scale, I welcome feedback from anyone who has taken the time to watch my work and type a reply.
    Rob C.

    Thanks Rob for responding to the comment I made re lighting. Whenever I give feedback, I try to be constructive rather than slagging things off. Much appreciated.


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    Actually it was but it was'nt advertised. so no one knew about it but I produced it and it does exist so if you want it here it is, come and get cos baby its a going fast (well not actually but couldnt resist the pun)

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    Also , forgot to say again that Im grateful for feedback to answer the issue of replacement DVDs from those without Chapters to those with, It depends er you have a re writable copy or write once! (we did some of each) if you have a re writable then Im happy to exchange as we can still use them. (to check read the faint writing on the clear centre part of the disc (it should read DVD+RW or DVD+R the former is what you want)


    Mac


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    Exclamation

    Um Ive been asked to point out that MJC 4-5-6 and I think 7 is only available through Jive Bug or an approved outlet I got so carried away with my little ditty I forgot to mention that sorry Simon

    Actually we only sell any of our products through our event partners. cos we twully luv them to little wittle pieces

    (feeling a tad strange tonight!) Mac

  7. #67
    Registered User Jon L's Avatar
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    Camber Video / DVD

    Time to bring this thread up into the foreground again.

    My Camber 2003 DVD dropped on the doormat on Saturday. I have watched several sections of this video, and make the following points

    Good Points:
    1) The Speed of delivery was excellent 5 weeks after the events

    2) The picture quality was good

    3) The sections were easy to navigate through, and you can skip through the credits/disclaimer (so annoying with commercial DVD's)

    Areas of Improvement

    The sound. There is distortion with bass from the mics. As I have said before, I wonder whether using a clip on the shirt mic is better for recording than an overhead one which is really close the mouth


    be interested on comments from anyone else.

  8. #68
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    Re: Camber Video / DVD

    Originally posted by Jon L
    As I have said before, I wonder whether using a clip on the shirt mic is better for recording than an overhead one which is really close the mouth
    The clip-on mics may pick up a lot of noise from the movement of the clothes. Most people are fairly still when they use them. And I'm not sure how well they work when the person's head is facing in a different direction to the body - such as when demonstrating a move side-on, but talking to the camera.

  9. #69
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    Just my two penneth worth!
    Its good that the delivery speed is so short we re all working on that one Im down to six weeks now so long as we get back the EDLs on time then this is becoming more the norm.

    As far as micing up is concerned, The standard seems to be headphone mic and radio set up. They are so unobtrusive that they can hardly be seen sometimes. You can even get skin colour match ones! however what you will get is heavy breathing !

    This can be eliminated to some degree in post by applying a low pass filter set above the natural pitch of the commentator.

    The easiest way out is a top slung condensor mic set to ambient positioned right in the middle above the demonstrators heads and strict instruction to the commentators that they are not to speak looking down! easier said than done though and you have to be aware of tungstan hum from the lights if your mic is closer than normal to them again this needs to be filtered out in post.

    Bass can easily be filtered out in post but this is another production processs and contributes to dwell time!

    In practice its all easier said than done!

    TTFN Mac




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    Originally posted by amir_giles
    See the most recent Australian Champs video for very good result. You could see all the competitors in one shot. There were no cuts, pans, close ups etc, and you can decide who to watch uninterrupeted.
    Just watched the Australian champs video again Amir, and yes they did a great job.
    Having spent years crusading that videos are a record for the dancers (and audience). Lets see everyone and no added rubbish. This one was great.

    No commentary simply the next section or dancers with sub-titles telling you what or who. + a slip of paper telling you the timings for each section.

    Originally posted by Mary
    I would like to re-inforce Amir's comments about framing. I was taught a long time ago, whilst filming a ballet, never chop off the dancer's feet, allow more headroom for the arms and hands, and give the dancers space to move into.

    Why do I buy a competition video? I think most people (but I could be wrong) buy the video for analysis. To see themselves perform, how they perform next to other competitors, and how the other competitors perform, or maybe just to see how your mates performed.
    M
    Framing was the best I have seen so far, there was one main camera and 3 backups, almost all footage (if not all, came from the main camera set up half way up the auditorium. Full stage for multi competitors, panning for showcases and team events (whilst keeping the WHOLE team in view).

    Was it hard, well the cameraman was an experienced dancer and followed Mary’s advice above. The cameraman coped well with David and Lily’s showcase which moved from one end of the stage to the next, keeping them in the bulk of the frame and yet predicting the movements.

    Was there complex editing/ streams etc. No, was there super-expensive pro cameras, No. The music did fade somewhat when people where cheering loudly and clapping enthusiastically to D&L’s performance BUT the atmosphere was captured and a fantastic record of their performance was recorded – all in time.

    It was not always like that, from constant nagging and whining from me and some other performers, they finally relented to the “keep it simple” tactic.
    It helped in 2001, when we were competing in teams event and I wanted a good record of us. The cameraman insisted on overhead ceiling cameras and the walking in front of the stage, picking out dancers approach, I managed to persuade the “co-cameraman” to simply set up a camera centre front and get a whole frame as the teams were meant to be viewed as a whole, also to “whole frame” the sections and “pan” the showcases. This he did with a simple camcorder on a tripod.

    The result, well a video came out with both cuts “a bit of who’s better than who in the cameraman world” – The cut I proudly show people of our winning team and of the comp as a whole, well the “full frontal” as apposed to the “look someone’s face, someone dancing, where are the others?” approach.

    Obviously this is my personal view, I am not commenting on the quality of the UK videos in general, only putting forward what I like in a show video. Hope it helps.

    (By the way Steve Strong, I loved the job you did at Camber May 2003, the 2 lessons you captured of me teaching were edited extremely well and the instructions you gave me whilst demoing for the camera [including the “avoid heavy breathing thing”] were helpful. The team cabaret I was involved in was also filmed well)


    Martin Elliott
    Australia

  11. #71
    Registered User JamesGeary's Avatar
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    It must be changing

    After years of watching out of sync videos where you couldn't work out what the dancers were doing, things seem to be getting better. The best one's I've seen in order have been

    1) Rebel Yell 2002 & 2003
    2) Britroc 2003
    3) Jivemasters 2003

    Happily all of which have been this year.

    All of which had subtitles, music in sync with the video, and plenty of wide angle shots so you could see either all the couples or at the least a complete picture of one couple. Britroc in particular seemed to easily handle lots of dancers spreadout over a large floor, although I would have liked to have seen more wide angle shots so I could have picked who I wanted to look at. I'm more interested in the dancing than someone's costume or make-up. Still very good though.

    So whatever's happening, technically things look to be on an upswing.

    If for some rare reason you need to be not showing everyone, such as a costume falling off, then paste in some randomly taken shots of the crowd for a few seconds, and that bit never needs to be in sync.

  12. #72
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    I think that Blackpool has a particular problem in that the floor is so large. A single wideangle shot to cover everyone might not be possible - you might still have to have 2 cameras - each one covering half the floor.

    And how easy would it be to do some slow motion replays of a couple of moves after each round? i.e. have the wideangle shot(s) for the main video, but have an additional camera trying to pick up some highlights from individual couples.

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    Wot No MJC7 ?

    Originally posted by JamesGeary
    The best one's I've seen in order have been

    1) Rebel Yell 2002 & 2003
    2) Britroc 2003
    3) Jivemasters 2003
    You obviously haven't seen the MJC7 video/DVD yet then

    Happy Christmas everyone.

    Rob

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    Re: Wot No MJC7 ?

    Originally posted by RobC
    You obviously haven't seen the MJC7 video/DVD yet then
    No I haven't seen it. This was just a good selection from the videos I have seen. Maybe someone could put up a poll of videos so we could see overall what videos people have liked.

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    Those that were on the William and May shoot for C4 will note that the times were 8am to 7.30 pm with shot list already worked out and ten production assistants all talking into their cuffs one camera on a stand two ops and one non a steady-cam - two ops. The sound had a recordist and about ten staff
    Each shot was rehearsed then shotseveral times
    say 70 people for 12 hours at £25 per hour
    All this for an estimated SIX MINUTES of final product in the can.

    If you want a full pro vid, then there must be a rehearsal so that cameras can find the best angles and there will be so many people working that the cost to the rushes will be un-recoverably high and the competition atmosphere will be lost

  16. #76
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    I've not seen Rebel Yell yet, but Ceroc 2003, Britroc 2003, and JiveMasters 2003 were all much better than previous dance videos that I've seen.

  17. #77
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    Originally posted by RogerR
    Those that were on the William and May shoot for C4 will note that the times were 8am to 7.30 pm with shot list already worked out and ten production assistants all talking into their cuffs one camera on a stand two ops and one non a steady-cam - two ops. The sound had a recordist and about ten staff
    Each shot was rehearsed then shotseveral times
    say 70 people for 12 hours at £25 per hour
    All this for an estimated SIX MINUTES of final product in the can.

    If you want a full pro vid, then there must be a rehearsal so that cameras can find the best angles and there will be so many people working that the cost to the rushes will be un-recoverably high and the competition atmosphere will be lost
    great stuff... I still say one camcorder, one advanced dancer, A full record of events...

    Been there done that.

    All power to the technophobes.

    For me show me the dancing, cut the ...........

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    In response to David B's last post (someplease tell me how to add reference qoutes in bold as I still have not managed to work it out)

    Technically slow mo is not difficult but If you start selecting clips for slow mo other footage would have to be sacrificed to make room for it. So it would inevitably upset some people who would be justifiably put out.

    David is absolutely right about the blackpool shoot The floor is way too large as the event thins out. Where we are able to set up is also very restricted but definately needs to change.

    What is needed is greater communication between the organisers and video operators prior to the event to get maxium efficient covarege if organisers want the video to become an integral part of the event as it seems they do.

    Also It does seem as though wider angle shots is the way to go so all those that im covering next year will have wide shots in the main apart from showcases/Luckydips/Hot shots (call them what you will)

    Team Cabs will be wide angle shots entirely (ulesss as in the Ceroc Hammersmith Palies venue there is not enough room.)

    Thanks for all the feedback as ever! Mac

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    i have only just joined this forum and interested in your comments.

    i filmed and edited the britroc video and hope that all was in sync including the atmospheric sounds and hope that everyone is happy with the results

    there were 3 camera angles, 4 sound fields (including a direct),

    unfortunatly due to a computer problem there was a delay of a week in the despatch of the videos but hopefully not to noticable

    i'm intersted in any feedback

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    Registered User Divissima's Avatar
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    Hi Inkjet - welcome to the Forum.

    I am the proud owner of the Britroc video and reckon it's excellent. My only criticism (constructive, I hope) is that in some heats you don't get to see much of particular couples because of their position on the floor, relative to the cameras. Of course, where there were two tracks the couples changed positions and were then in most cases in shot for at least one of the tracks.

    Would it have been possible/be possible for next time to have wider angle shots so that all couples are in shot (so the viewer can pick which couples to watch)?

    La Diva

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