Women 'not allowed' to lead at Ceroc?

[killingtime]

A friend is learning Ceroc at ISH and Lounge (City/Moorgate) and last night said she was enjoying it but there were too many women. When asked if she had tried leading, she said women weren't allowed to. Is this really right? And if so, is this sexual discrimination? It seems a bit daft.

Are we talking in a class context here? I'm presume so. I think it seems silly to stop women leading but then every time I flip that to men following (in a class) instead I see that most classes would probably block that. I think a lot of guys in rotation would hate that; so it would be in the venue's interest to stop men following as to not lose customers. I'm not trying to turn this around to being about men following I'm just stating that we assume stopping women leading in class is daft but, yet, we'd see men not following as sensible.

I know of a venue manager who stated, flat out, that a new woman shouldn't lead to her when she asked. As I think the woman in question's primary goal was to learn to dance with her partner then it didn't come as a surprise when they left early and didn't come back the next week (had I been there at the beginning then I would have definitely mentioned something to her about ignoring the venue manager).

[Rocky]

I was at a Rebel Roc do some years back when Katy was still running it and she actually stopped the class and told a lady leading that she must stop leading and re-join the class as a follower. This also wasn't the first time that she had a problem with this either.

Maybe she had some experience of other people coming to her classes from another dance organization, learning the moves and and then setting up in competition - through the grapevine I was told that this was the reason for her reaction to this - but even so, I thought it was very heavy handed and totally unreasonable.

[dave the scaffolder]

In classes - I think so.

If you are a male lead and want to learn to follow, it would help if you knew how to lead first, if you want to join the classes,

However, in freestyle you can do as you wish

Some females prefer to lead rather than follow, so it doesn't always follow

T'is only my opinion

Must say it does annoy me sometimes, when there are sooooooooooo many females and most of the men are dancing with each other

I nearly got assaulted a couple of years ago when i danced with Jamie at Bognor. After our dance the floor was full of men dancing with men.

A lady came up to me and had a right pop at me for dancing with Jamie, which for about a half an hour all the men danced together.

There was nearly a riot.

Dts Dave XXX XXX

[killingtime]

I was at a Rebel Roc do some years back when Katy was still running it and she actually stopped the class and told a lady leading that she must stop leading and re-join the class as a follower...

Maybe she had some experience of other people coming to her classes from another dance organization, learning the moves and and then setting up in competition

Do only women set up dance events ? What's to stop a man leading every week and then set up the competition?

[Steven666]

A lady came up to me and had a right pop at me for dancing with Jamie, which for about a half an hour all the men danced together.

Was it a using up the available men issue or something else? If it's the latter then that is sad.

[Kel_Warminster]

I started learning to lead after approx 7 months, can now dance to good intermediate level following and bad intermediate level leading LOL

[Rocky]

Do only women set up dance events ? What's to stop a man leading every week and then set up the competition?

I think the rational was that as it was relatively unusual to see a woman leading back then (probably 6-7 years ago) Katy's view was that there must have been an ulterior motive for it. I agree it doesn't make much sense, but then if you're paranoid about something common sense rarely comes into it.

[Chef]

I was at a Rebel Roc do some years back when Katy was still running it and she actually stopped the class and told a lady leading that she must stop leading and re-join the class as a follower. This also wasn't the first time that she had a problem with this either.

Maybe she had some experience of other people coming to her classes from another dance organization, learning the moves and and then setting up in competition - through the grapevine I was told that this was the reason for her reaction to this - but even so, I thought it was very heavy handed and totally unreasonable.

Totally true. My partner and I both started our dancing at Tunbridge Wells High Rocks when Katy was running rebel roc. After about a year of doing this we both wanted to learn the other role to try and develop our dancing skills. My partner wanted to learn to lead one night as there were oodles of women over in the beginners class. In the middle of the evening Katy informed my partner that some women had complained about her being a leader as it made them feel uncomfortable. If she wanted to lead then she had to go elsewhere.

So we did.

We ended going to Ceroc at Maidstone, Bromley and Rochester instead. Katy had started out not wanting to have complaints from her customers and ended up losing two of them. It was a good thing in the end. We started to go to more and more places and experiencing more and more styles of dancers and teachers. In the end Katys events looked insular and irrelevant to us. Us going elsewhere may have not been her loss but it was certainly our gain.

[Steven666]

Totally true. My partner and I both started our dancing at Tunbridge Wells High Rocks when Katy was running rebel roc. After about a year of doing this we both wanted to learn the other role to try and develop our dancing skills. My partner wanted to learn to lead one night as there were oodles of women over in the beginners class. In the middle of the evening Katy informed my partner that some women had complained about her being a leader as it made them feel uncomfortable. If she wanted to lead then she had to go elsewhere.

That is bizarre. If it was a male going round following in a class, then that may be OK. But, what were these people on?

[martingold]

Totally true. My partner and I both started our dancing at Tunbridge Wells High Rocks when Katy was running rebel roc. After about a year of doing this we both wanted to learn the other role to try and develop our dancing skills. My partner wanted to learn to lead one night as there were oodles of women over in the beginners class. In the middle of the evening Katy informed my partner that some women had complained about her being a leader as it made them feel uncomfortable. If she wanted to lead then she had to go elsewhere.

Doesnt she have female taxi dancers? and if so do they only ever follow

[dep]

The biggest disadvantage of only being able to follow is not being able to MJ at a non MJ event.
Surely a leading Lady could try to dance with her new non dancing partner as an introduction to what MJ is all about. Then he/she learns to lead.

[Chef]

Doesnt she have female taxi dancers? and if so do they only ever follow

Yes Katy did have female taxi dancers that did lead both in freestyle and in the classes. It did seem odd that there were complaints that my partner was leading and no complaints were heard about the female taxi dancers leading people. It did made us perflexed by Katys' objection.

We thought we were doing the class a favour. We didn't really get much out of the beginners class for ourselves at that point but thought we could be of assistance to other new beginners. If we danced our normal roles then we would have a neutral effect on the numbers of women standing out. If we both danced the leaders role we would reduce the number of ladies standing out by two.

When we did return to dance at High Rocks we would overcome the objections by dancing the beginners and intermediates classes as a fixed couple but swapping roles. Many men would ask my partner how to lead the intermediate routine since she could often succeed where they would struggle. My partner finds it difficult to lead in freestyle however. In the class is one thing, in freestyle it all goes pear shaped, a bit like I am finding in WCS.

[killingtime]

That is bizarre. If it was a male going round following in a class, then that may be OK. But, what were these people on?

Strange how we so readily assume no woman would have an issue with dancing with another woman yet so quickly endorse people stopping men wanting to follow rotation. (Not that I'm disagreeing that A) there are generally women over B) that lots of men would be put off by a guy following in rotation).

Since it turns out she had female taxis leading then it does seem strange to stop another woman leading.

[Steven666]

Strange how we so readily assume no woman would have an issue with dancing with another woman yet so quickly endorse people stopping men wanting to follow rotation. (Not that I'm disagreeing that A) there are generally women over B) that lots of men would be put off by a guy following in rotation).

Since it turns out she had female taxis leading then it does seem strange to stop another woman leading.

I wish I could revolve around a class as a follow without any remote hassle/prefudice/funny looks but it ain't gonna happen. Not in the North West at least.

[Tiggerbabe]

Strange how we so readily assume no woman would have an issue with dancing with another woman yet so quickly endorse people stopping men wanting to follow rotation.

I have asked a lady to dance, having watched her sit out for the greater part of the evening, she was horrified and told me that there was no way she would consider dancing with another woman.

So there are some women who do feel uncomfortable dancing with a female lead.

[killingtime]

So there are some women who do feel uncomfortable dancing with a female lead.

I am aware of that my statement was that we just assume women don't have an issue with it (which some do) and assume men will (which I'm confident that there will be some that will).

[Tiggerbabe]

I am aware of that my statement was that we just assume women don't have an issue with it (which some do) and assume men will (which I'm confident that there will be some that will).

I know, was just backing you up with a little evidence

[fletch]

I know, was just backing you up with a little evidence

There have been instances where ladies have been less than welcoming, shall we say, to a female lead, I would'nt put the exact details on hear, its not my place. But lets say this person now dances with people more than willing to dance with them, and regularly has a que.




Not every one understands 'the dance' there are all forms of this in MJ (not just MJ) people that don't tick the boxes, they might look different, dress different, there just different, and we don't understand it.



Some of the things said to me

my dad

'I wouldn't go in the toilet if there was one of them poofters in there'


in the company of a black friend some years ago,

'I don't like rasters but your all right'




embrace the difference, its hard I know, but no one if perfect.




ramble over, I spread it about.........on to another tread

[dep]

I have asked a lady to dance, having watched her sit out for the greater part of the evening, she was horrified and told me that there was no way she would consider dancing with another woman.

So there are some women who do feel uncomfortable dancing with a female lead.

Shame on us men for allowing that to happen.
It's part of the reason I deliberately ask those sitting out and risk being refused (four times last night).

[Agente Secreto]

An interesting thread - just confirms for me that lots of people let their various hang-ups get in the way of having a good night on the dance floor. I danced for the first time with another male at one of the classes at Southport, and he seemed genuinely surprised that we just got straight down to it. I've danced with only a couple of guys, including CJ one Friday night when we out at the Jam House in Edinburgh - a good dance but it did raise some eyebrows of the non-MJ punters around us. My wife Janette has danced a couple of times with Tor and much to my annoyance commented that she's a far better lead than me...................

For 3-4 minutes dancing to a good track I'm simply engaged in a performance - male or female partner it's not a life-long relationship you're building just trying to get the most enjoyment for yourself and your partner of the moment. That being said I realise that many others simply have different comfort zones.

DTS, I've always said you're a dance god , but we've never danced so when are you coming back up to Jive Nites with Trouble so we can rectify that! I might even let you lead......