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Thread: Cricitising your dance partner.

  1. #61
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: Cricitising your dance partner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    remembering to not stick your tongue out because you are concentrating.
    I didn't know you'd seen Beo dancing!

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    Re: Cricitising your dance partner.

    Perhaps he was kneeling on the floor with a thigh outstretched for you to sit on and you thought you were going into a drop and did that instead.

    No, I was in front with my back to him (both of us upright) and he put both arms under my arms and indicated a drop - I'm not very good at explaining this! - but when I've done this before with other people it's ended in a bit of a lean with my weight more or less supported on my bent leg, with my other one being dead elegant and pointed (ha!) in front, then I would feel a gentle indication that I should go upright again, and no comment has been made on that being wrong.

    This bloke, both the times he did this drop, it he just kept taking me down further and further back and I didn't know what to do. I felt out of control because I could no longer support my weight because I was so far back, and we got so low, then he just said "sit!" Well, I couldn't by then, as I was completely overbalanced, and by that stage somehow he was supporting me between my shoulderblades - I have no idea what I did wrong, but the only other thing he said was that my back should have been straight. Unfortunately I don't know whether he meant straight-horizontal or straight-vertical, but it was already as straight as I could make it, which was why I was parallel with the floor! And if I was supposed to stay vertical from the start then he could have told me that as soon as I started to lean back on the second attempt.

    So when should I have tried to "sit" and how? I wasn't any wiser the second time, so I just said sorry again, and I suppose he just thought I was a prat!

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    Registered User Spiky Steve's Avatar
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    Re: Cricitising your dance partner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    But if someone says "Can I give you a tip?" when I'm dancing, I would feel very rude saying "No", even if I am thinking to myself "I'd rather you didn't because I think you're rubbish". So I would always say yes to that question anyway, smile sweetly, etc. I really can't think of another way to handle that situation, especially as I'm barely out of muggledom myself.

    .
    You are spot on and giving advice is delicate. I believe with any advice you have to work out where it comes from, what are their credentials and why are they giving you the advice.

    As the advice usually originates from someone with teaching credentials. I try to state where the information comes from e.g. The teacher here teaches this etc and if you want confirmation speak to .... or try dancing with ...

    I hope this helps

    Steve

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    Re: Cricitising your dance partner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    So when should I have tried to "sit" and how? I wasn't any wiser the second time, so I just said sorry again, and I suppose he just thought I was a prat!
    Well it's obvious he's the prat!

    You should have just laugh at him instead of try to appease him with a smile.

    Move on quickly to the next dance

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    Re: Cricitising your dance partner.

    Quote Originally Posted by dep View Post
    ...Message understood.
    No more "well done"....
    oops.
    got thro' Thursday successfully, but last night I let the side down.
    Near the end of the night (early morning) I was over the moon after a superb dance and in amongst the compliments a WD slipped out. I do hope this complete stranger did not pick up the wrong vibe.
    Never even got her name.

  6. #66
    Registered User Mini Mac's Avatar
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    Re: Cricitising your dance partner.

    I do not like being critiscised unless it is not in a patronising way or its dealt with maturely....for example, DTS and I were dancing in stevenage a few weeks ago and he dropped me...usually i would come back up again but this time DTS told me to stiffen myself because it was easier..i took his advice and now he has no problem dipping me

    however the next time i went ot stevenage i'm sorry to say DTS wasn't there, but i done the beginner and intermeidates class...so after rotating round for around fifteen minutes...i am partnered with a french man, some of the stevenage crowd might know him...tall, (large built), heavy french accent....he seemed ok but then i recognized him from the saturday freestyle at stevenage, i had been wearing my black cookie monster face printed top (same one as twirlie bird!) and this french guy yelled at me that it should be blue! He may have meant it as a joke but it came out like he was bellowing at me...anyway so we done the routine, halfway through he stopped and told me my posture was wrong. I have never been corrected for my posture before so it came as quite a shock, he said my grip was not firm enough and that he had been dancing for ten years now and how he was an expert...so we done the routine but he got bored and put some intermediate moves in. I was fine with this, but throughout the whole dance he yelled and cursed at me.

    I think he honestly should be banned, he scares me, he's rude to everyone he meets and he's got a pompous, snobby attitude...

    my friend leanne also finds him very unpleasant and nearly did report him because he flung her round the dance floor like a ragdoll...

    like i said, i don't mind being critiscised...but certainly not in the way i was treated by the french guy at stevenage!

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    Registered User DundeeDancer's Avatar
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    Re: Cricitising your dance partner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Mac View Post
    like i said, i don't mind being critiscised...but certainly not in the way i was treated by the french guy at stevenage!
    So Mini Mac what did you learn from the horrid French man experience? Would you react differently in future if you had the misfortune to meet someone similar. Would you consider saying anything to them or maybe just escape and run for the girls toilets.

    Dancefloors can be a dangerous places at times!

    Sometimes it's all about survival.

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    Re: Cricitising your dance partner.

    Hi Mini,
    report him.
    Once the organisers have a history, we would expect them to take action.

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    Re: Cricitising your dance partner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    No, I was in front with my back to him (both of us upright) and he put both arms under my arms and indicated a drop - I'm not very good at explaining this! - but when I've done this before with other people it's ended in a bit of a lean with my weight more or less supported on my bent leg, with my other one being dead elegant and pointed (ha!) in front, then I would feel a gentle indication that I should go upright again, and no comment has been made on that being wrong.
    As you say it is really hard to decribe these things in words when a picture would be worth a thousand of them. Even so, from your decscription it sounds to me that the move you are describing is known as a "drop kick", a classic move from the rock and roll era.

    A lot of people end up doing this by the woman being reclined backwards and then pointing one leg out in front. The move works a lot better if the man only takes the woman backwards a little way and instead of reclining backwards she sits down just like she was sitting down on a chair, so that the back, from hip to shoulder is nearly vertical and the thigh of the supporting leg is just about horizontal to the floor. In this position the kicking leg can end up really close to the womans face when done in full on performance mode.

    Taking the woman further backwards just makes the woman feel heavier in your arms and slows the move down, it being a move done to fast rock and roll music in origin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    This bloke, both the times he did this drop, it he just kept taking me down further and further back and I didn't know what to do. I felt out of control because I could no longer support my weight because I was so far back, and we got so low, then he just said "sit!" Well, I couldn't by then, as I was completely overbalanced, and by that stage somehow he was supporting me between my shoulderblades - I have no idea what I did wrong, but the only other thing he said was that my back should have been straight. Unfortunately I don't know whether he meant straight-horizontal or straight-vertical, but it was already as straight as I could make it, which was why I was parallel with the floor! And if I was supposed to stay vertical from the start then he could have told me that as soon as I started to lean back on the second attempt.
    You will not be able to support your own weight in this move anyway (that is why he has his arms securely under your armpits for support). Your back probably should have been straight vertically. By the time you end up being parrallel to the floor you couldn't have changed your position without hitting your bottom of the floor.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation it just shows that the social dance floor just isn't the place to work out the intracies of a move.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    So when should I have tried to "sit" and how? I wasn't any wiser the second time, so I just said sorry again, and I suppose he just thought I was a prat!
    IMHO you should have tried to sit like you were sitting on a office chair with the back rest set for a slight recline. Oh yes - keep your shoulders pressed down as you commit your weight to the mans arms. If you don't then it looks like you have sagged down and that your shoulders are trying to attack your ears. It also makes you feel heavier to the man and it is not much fun for you, and it doesn't look very good.

    Perhaps he didn't think you were a prat just that it wasn't a move that was going to work and that he should move on. Not everything that you try on the social dance floor works. You can try small changes to see if you can get it to work but there is no point hammering away at the same problem for the whole track.

    Stuff happens. Have a laugh about it and let it wash away.

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    Re: Cricitising your dance partner.

    Mini Mac - I was in Cambridge with my job last week, (I actually live in West Wilts!!) and travelled 30 miles down to Stevenage for the Weds class, on the 12th. Was this the same night you were talking about?

    I think that I know this guy. He was the third person I danced with during the beginners class. I asked him how long he had been dancing, and he said "Oh, for about 10 minutes". Taking this as a joke, I joked back "ooo had better not grip too hard then!"

    He took this as an insult, snapped out a reply (again, the "I've been dancing for 10 years actually" comment), told me that if he needed help from an amateur he would ask for it, and then stalked off the dancefloor during the beginners class, leaving me standing there alone, going very red and feeling bad. It was my first Ceroc night back after Camber Storm, and it was VERY unpleasant.

    Thank God for big Mark, Onkar, Rob, and Neil S. there - they had restored my confidence by the end of the night with some great freestyles. Thanks boys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Mac View Post
    I do not like being critiscised unless it is not in a patronising way or its dealt with maturely....for example, DTS and I were dancing in stevenage a few weeks ago and he dropped me...usually i would come back up again but this time DTS told me to stiffen myself because it was easier..i took his advice and now he has no problem dipping me

    however the next time i went ot stevenage i'm sorry to say DTS wasn't there, but i done the beginner and intermeidates class...so after rotating round for around fifteen minutes...i am partnered with a french man, some of the stevenage crowd might know him...tall, (large built), heavy french accent....he seemed ok but then i recognized him from the saturday freestyle at stevenage, i had been wearing my black cookie monster face printed top (same one as twirlie bird!) and this french guy yelled at me that it should be blue! He may have meant it as a joke but it came out like he was bellowing at me...anyway so we done the routine, halfway through he stopped and told me my posture was wrong. I have never been corrected for my posture before so it came as quite a shock, he said my grip was not firm enough and that he had been dancing for ten years now and how he was an expert...so we done the routine but he got bored and put some intermediate moves in. I was fine with this, but throughout the whole dance he yelled and cursed at me.

    I think he honestly should be banned, he scares me, he's rude to everyone he meets and he's got a pompous, snobby attitude...

    my friend leanne also finds him very unpleasant and nearly did report him because he flung her round the dance floor like a ragdoll...

    like i said, i don't mind being critiscised...but certainly not in the way i was treated by the french guy at stevenage!

  11. #71
    Registered User Mini Mac's Avatar
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    Re: Cricitising your dance partner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kel_Warminster View Post
    Mini Mac - I was in Cambridge with my job last week, (I actually live in West Wilts!!) and travelled 30 miles down to Stevenage for the Weds class, on the 12th. Was this the same night you were talking about?

    I think that I know this guy. He was the third person I danced with during the beginners class. I asked him how long he had been dancing, and he said "Oh, for about 10 minutes". Taking this as a joke, I joked back "ooo had better not grip too hard then!"

    He took this as an insult, snapped out a reply (again, the "I've been dancing for 10 years actually" comment), told me that if he needed help from an amateur he would ask for it, and then stalked off the dancefloor during the beginners class, leaving me standing there alone, going very red and feeling bad. It was my first Ceroc night back after Camber Storm, and it was VERY unpleasant.
    That does sound like him...but i was taking my gcse drama exam play on the 12th so it must have been the week before

    The next time stevenage is open i might have a chat with sue and alan...as their niece has been bothered by this man as well...

    it is very embarrasing when someone leaves you there like a lunatic and theyre is such thing as dancer's etiquette i have met a variety of people since i have been dancing who can't seem to take this on board...

    it's a shame you had to be on the recieving end of his so called jokes...next time your on stevenage come and say hello. ( i will be the tiny brunette (possibly in an oscar grouch t shirt, spinning and laughing lol (might also be accopinied by another young girl (or two!)

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    Re: Cricitising your dance partner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Mac View Post
    That does sound like him...but i was taking my gcse drama exam play on the 12th so it must have been the week before

    The next time stevenage is open i might have a chat with sue and alan...as their niece has been bothered by this man as well...

    it is very embarrasing when someone leaves you there like a lunatic and theyre is such thing as dancer's etiquette i have met a variety of people since i have been dancing who can't seem to take this on board...

    it's a shame you had to be on the recieving end of his so called jokes...next time your on stevenage come and say hello. ( i will be the tiny brunette (possibly in an oscar grouch t shirt, spinning and laughing lol (might also be accopinied by another young girl (or two!)
    I spoke to kevin who is usually on the door at a couple of the cerocmetro venues about this yesterday and have been told that the certain frenchman wont be about much longer

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    Re: Cricitising your dance partner.

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    I spoke to kevin who is usually on the door at a couple of the cerocmetro venues about this yesterday and have been told that the certain frenchman wont be about much longer
    thank you martin gold...i appreciate this gesture i must get a dance with you soon! Will you be at the black and bling ball at st albans next week?

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    Re: Cricitising your dance partner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Mac View Post
    thank you martin gold...i appreciate this gesture
    Your very welcome if you have any trouble at any of adams venues (cerocmetro) you will always be welcome to contact me i have no problem sticking my nose in Having said that there are a few people on here that are probably in a better position to talk to the venue managers than i am (robin for example or even adam himself)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Mac View Post
    i must get a dance with you soon! Will you be at the black and bling ball at st albans next week?
    we might well be there we will be at cheshunt this week but i guess you will be at ashtons

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    Re: Cricitising your dance partner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiky Steve View Post
    This is just my opinion formed from **** ups and some time as a Taxi dancer.

    When it comes to tips, feedback etc I think it is best to ask and re-check if people want any advice and then the empathy before critism as suggested works well.

    I'm not that keen on tips if I am learning something new as I am paying to listen to the teacher and there is already a lot of information coming in.

    All that said, we all slip up sometimes and "what do you need from my lead" can come out completely differently.

    Steve
    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    as a taxi i normally give tips with a smidge of humour attached.
    I don't think it is up to the ordinary punters to critisize or offer advice.

    I think bad habits should be iron out early on by the teachers and taxis.

    I know Ceroc is sold as a fun dance, not to be taken too seriously, but serious injuries can occur.

    I would like to think that the teachers and taxis would speak up and criticise bothersome leads.

    I see them as a line of defence between me and inept punters.

    I get the impression that the ceroc workers are reticient about critisizing, saying it will detroy someone's confidence.

    But if someone is making unwittingly serious mistakes, I know I would want to be told as it would be embarrassing and dancers would start avoiding me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post



    It's not easy being a leader what with all that leading, thinking, avoiding other people, thinking about this move, thinking about the next move, remembering to smile, remembering to not stick your tongue out because you are concentrating.
    Everyone makes mistakes.

    I think David James' idea of having taxis for the intermediates is great, as I didn't get enough attention as a beginner and had some bad habits.

    No one told me and it would have been useful to have more people working for ceroc, willing to step forward and set me to rights.

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    Re: Cricitising your dance partner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    I think bad habits should be iron out early on by the teachers and taxis.
    But if the taxis only dance with Beginners when on duty, then that's only covering the first few weeks of someone's time learning to dance.

    So it's up to the teacher to sort out all the bad habits of everyone else.

    Most of my bad dances aren't with beginners but intermediates - eg. last night I had a really nice dance with a beginner but a rubbish one with the intermediate who was bouncing my hand whilst dancing off time. (It's hard work to lead someone who's ahead of the beat - they decide what they want to do next before you've led anything.)

    Which is, of course, why we need this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    DavidJames' idea of having taxis for the intermediates
    Love dance, will travel

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    Re: Cricitising your dance partner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    I don't think it is up to the ordinary punters to critisize or offer advice.
    Couldn't agree more. In freestyle you are there to have some social interaction with a partner for 3 or 4 minutes (some say that's all us guys can manage). It would be a bad night if you went from partner to partner getting their advice (criticism), most of which would probably conflict with the previous person and be wrong anyway. The general rule should be to leave the instruction to the teachers.

    Where I dance those of us that do teach spend the early part of freestyle working the floor and trying to give attention to all. If I spot recurring things we'll try and get that in an intermediate class as an extra teaching point.

    Sometimes I will mention to a partner while dancing that they may find a change might improve things but mostly I will only do that if they say to me that they can't get something and invite the advice - otherwise my job when dancing with them is to do my best to make them have a good time and leave the floor with a smile on their face.

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    ..............but serious injuries can occur

    I would like to think that the teachers and taxis would speak up and criticise bothersome leads.
    We do, and bothersome follows too..............................

    Anyone that is a menace to partners needs to be taken aside. That can be someone who is always rude (like the French guy at Stevenage - no jokes about rude being a standard trait of the French please) or someone doing dangerous things such as dipping/dropping beginners badly. It is difficult to see sometimes mind when you're out there trying to dance with as many people as you can so we rely on the punters telling us if there is a menace.

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    Re: Cricitising your dance partner.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    But if the taxis only dance with Beginners when on duty, then that's only covering the first few weeks of someone's time learning to dance.
    Are you saying that once a beginner leaves the beginner's review class, that taxis stop giving constructive critism unless asked?

    Most of my bad dances aren't with beginners but intermediates - eg. last night I had a really nice dance with a beginner but a rubbish one with the intermediate
    I know exactly what you mean.

    For instance I enjoyed 2 lovely dances at Utopoa on Friday with a lead who has been dancing less than 6 months.

    In contrast there are some leads who have been dancing at least as long as I have (3 years) who I don't enjoy dancing with at all.
    There seems to be something wrong with their technique. I wonder if that's why some dancers reach a plateau and stay there?

    Intermediate taxis would be a real help to these dancers IMO.

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    Re: Cricitising your dance partner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    Are you saying that once a beginner leaves the beginner's review class, that taxis stop giving constructive critism unless asked?
    Yes - It's what I did when I was taxiing, anyway.

    If you don't confine yourself to advising Beginners, then where do you draw the line on who you feedback to?

    There are people who've been dancing longer than me that will still bounce or grip my hand, for instance. Should I, a mere young whippersnapper , have given feedback to them when I was taxiing?

    If not, then what should I have said to the new Intermediate who did exactly the same thing?

    It's not as if being a taxi or ex-taxi means I'm perfect either - there are probably legitimate feedback points that people could say to me now, or could have said when I was taxiing.

    So it I think I'm saying I'd leave it to the teacher (in the absence of Intermediate Taxis).
    Love dance, will travel

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    Re: Cricitising your dance partner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    In contrast there are some leads who have been dancing at least as long as I have (3 years) who I don't enjoy dancing with at all.
    There seems to be something wrong with their technique. I wonder if that's why some dancers reach a plateau and stay there?
    Do you include yourself in the 'some dancers' group Astro?

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