Regional styles - do they exist?

[jemessex]

You're more likely to hear it than see it. It's when the man stamps his foot hard on to the floor to make a loud noise. I presume to emphasise a break or similar. What ever the purpose, it's one of my pet hates!!!! (Sorry Mr Cool )

or a certain few lady follows in East Anglia in their stilleto's....heard it several times the other night in an Ipswich venue and kept looking round to see who had been shot

[Double Trouble]

What ever the purpose, it's one of my pet hates!!!! (Sorry Mr Cool )

My Cool does like a good foot stamp doesn't he?

I hate it too, but, hey...it's Mr Cool...gotta forgive him anything.

[Martin]

Apologies if a thread already exists exploring this, but I was wondering whether experienced dancers can detect recognisable regional styles in MJ?

Absolutely !!

There are definately regional differences, often even down to the regular venue one attends.

Having travelled around the UK lots between 1994 and 1999 - I could often tell which area and even which regular classes certain dancers came from.

Only last year a couple in Australia was pointed out to me, I was told they came from the UK - I said "yeah, looks like Fulham to me..." Turns out - they were regulars at Fulham.
A few years ago a new face was dancing in a comp in Sydney, I was asked "where is he from" - looking at his dancing I said, "he must be one of Graig's pupils - so he is from perth". Turns out, yup he was from Perth.

I dance mainly in Australia now, and can certainly tell who has been taught by which dance company in Australia, and in which geographical area.

[NZ Monkey]

After coming over from New Zealand I was struck by how different the "style" was in the UK compared to home. After a while I became more experienced and used to it and didn't notice it as much, even after I moved back home again. I still remember feeling almost shocked at the difference when I'd arrived though.

I also got a very different feelign from the Scotish dancers - generally more enthusiastic and playful than my London peers. Having said that, I may have been dancing with something of a self selecting sample during my time there.

[MartinHarper]

In London, there is much more of an emphasis on letting the follower play, and using a much lighter lead generally.

That's because Londoners are soft.

What's this laughing at your own witticisms here.

Mildly annoying.

If the musicians wanted blakey plods in the song, I'm sure they would have put them in.

Depends. Some music is intended for audience participation.

[Whitebeard]

what's this laughing at your own witticisms here.
Is it the done thing, as I've seen it pretty often?

Whereas, if the rolling about had been placed after my innocent look quote, the meaning of your posting would have completely changed.

Howdy deppy sleaze factor puzzly baby. It's all beyond me as smilies don't generally register with me. I just happen to like that particular one as it's so very obvious (and amuzing) - even to a dumbwit like me. And if I can't laugh to my own attempts at wit - who else will ???

[dep]

Howdy deppy sleaze factor puzzly baby.

you've got me summed up. Even down to the teenage brain still trying to work out why it's fitted to a tired body.

who else will ???

we will laugh along with you.

[geoff332]

On a slightly broader scale, there are definitely differences between NZ, Aussie and UK dancers. Calling them style differences is only true in the broadest sense. There are different moves taught and preferred; different variations in moves taught; and quite different thinking on lead and follow. All of this produces stylistic differences, but the style differences are indicative of deeper differences in the approach to ceroc.

Within NZ and the UK, I've noticed similar differences between venues. Most seem to stem from the attitude taken by the franchisee and the teachers. They are enacted through different emphases on what is taught (and how it is taught). They are manifest in different selection of moves, different styles and different approaches to leading and following.

[Lou]

On a slightly broader scale, there are definitely differences between NZ, Aussie and UK dancers. Calling them style differences is only true in the broadest sense. There are different moves taught and preferred; different variations in moves taught; and quite different thinking on lead and follow. All of this produces stylistic differences, but the style differences are indicative of deeper differences in the approach to ceroc.

Within NZ and the UK, I've noticed similar differences between venues. Most seem to stem from the attitude taken by the franchisee and the teachers. They are enacted through different emphases on what is taught (and how it is taught). They are manifest in different selection of moves, different styles and different approaches to leading and following.

I'm not sure I totally agree with you, Geoff.

Firstly, I don't think you can say that there is a definitive UK type of dancer. Whilst it's true that Ceroc in the UK is mostly consistent (allowing for style variations, as you say) - there are a lot of other independent classes out there, too.

And secondly, I don't think that the differences that you've highlighted (different moves & variations taught, how it's taught, etc.) affects the dance itself. It still seems to me that it's the style of MJ. Maybe I'm just not thinking it through properly. Could you provide some examples of the actual differences that you see.

[Martin]

Within NZ and the UK, I've noticed similar differences between venues. Most seem to stem from the attitude taken by the franchisee and the teachers. They are enacted through different emphases on what is taught (and how it is taught). They are manifest in different selection of moves, different styles and different approaches to leading and following.

I'm not sure I totally agree with you, Geoff.

Firstly, I don't think you can say that there is a definitive UK type of dancer. Whilst it's true that Ceroc in the UK is mostly consistent (allowing for style variations, as you say) - there are a lot of other independent classes out there, too.

To an Australian, you can certainly tell that they have not been taught in Australia or NZ, which leaves the UK mostly.

And secondly, I don't think that the differences that you've highlighted (different moves & variations taught, how it's taught, etc.) affects the dance itself. It still seems to me that it's the style of MJ. Maybe I'm just not thinking it through properly. Could you provide some examples of the actual differences that you see.

Another way of looking at it would be to think of the accents within the English Language.

When you first learnt to speak, the accent used by those around you, tends to stick with you for life - unless you try hard to change the way you speak, and even then, often you slip into your original accent when you are relaxed.

This is similar to dance. Where you first learnt, who was around you, who taught you etc. forms the basis of your dance accent.

[Lou]

This is similar to dance. Where you first learnt, who was around you, who taught you etc. forms the basis of your dance accent.

I'm not disagreeing. In fact, earlier in this thread I mentioned that I could distinguish the different "accents" even down to the level of the local classes in the Bristol areal. For locals there, it's the difference between a Hartcliffe & a Clifton accent.

However, I don't think it's the region that defines the style. It's like you say - it's more to do with who taught you, and the other dancers around.

What I'm having trouble with is understanding why Geoff believes that it's not just "style" that differs. But, to me (to take your example), all those countries may have different accents, but one common language. Sure, the occasional word differs, and some people may say might like to say "Bruce" or "Sheila" more often* - but the basic structure and how we use the language is the same. That's why I'd love to hear him expand on it a bit.


*forgive the stereotype!

[Martin]

I'm not disagreeing. In fact, earlier in this thread I mentioned that I could distinguish the different "accents" even down to the level of the local classes in the Bristol areal. For locals there, it's the difference between a Hartcliffe & a Clifton accent.

However, I don't think it's the region that defines the style. It's like you say - it's more to do with who taught you, and the other dancers around.

What I'm having trouble with is understanding why Geoff believes that it's not just "style" that differs. But, to me (to take your example), all those countries may have different accents, but one common language. Sure, the occasional word differs, and some people may say might like to say "Bruce" or "Sheila" more often* - but the basic structure and how we use the language is the same. That's why I'd love to hear him expand on it a bit.


*forgive the stereotype!

I think it might be a terminology thing, but you and Geoff, I think, are on the same page.... We will await Geoff's reply.

As with Bristol (and I have danced in Bristol many moons ago), Sydney has 3 dance companies - and it is not hard to see where people attend, when watching them dance.

For example:
looking at the followers from company A/ more sabotage, lots more girlie "look at me".. company B/ more subtle in the follow, but still a lot of styling

Both companies produce great dancers (so no judgement on right or wrong), however you can spot the "emphasis".

For people in the UK, you may well say - oh look Aussie dancers...

It would be interesting to hear more from those who think there is no differences between regions (sorry, dance companies ).

When I first danced in Brighton, there was only one company there, and one primary teacher - we organised bus trips to Notre Dame , in Leister square.. The Londoners would spot the "Brighton boys and girlies" by the way we danced, even though most of us travelled up to London for classes during the week. we still had our "Brighton accent" - which was more smooth.
I got my ballroom rise and fall kicked out of me quick smart in Brighton, and bouncing was a total no no...

[CheesyRobMan]

I'm not disagreeing. In fact, earlier in this thread I mentioned that I could distinguish the different "accents" even down to the level of the local classes in the Bristol areal. For locals there, it's the difference between a Hartcliffe & a Clifton accent.

Heehee

Yer, 'zee knackin' 'Urtcleff?!

(lived in Bristol for 14 years... we luvs 'ee )

[onkar]

The Midlands is the only place I have see the 'stamp' taught

guy's don't stamp we don't like it

Not only the Midlands, it is still taught as a styling move to guys for the Wurlitzer at Ceroc Central (at least at St Neots & Cambridge), and is in my view, something that should be banned, as I think it is both naff, and disruptive to surrounding dancers!

Onkar

[Gadget]

I think that each venue has a subtly different style based on the teacher and the regulars. If there are multiple teachers in the same venue then it's less pronounced, but it's still there.

The regulars I would say have just as much an influence over the 'heard' as the teacher: If there are competition people, then you may see more styling, dips and "show off" moves. If there are people who do other dance forms, then you may see an influence of this. If regulars like a certain move and they are good at it, then you might see more variations on this move... etc.

[gebandemuishond]

I havn't noticed any dramatic regional style differences, other than at Oxford people just don't seem to to the bouncy hand thing, compared to back in Cheshire. where it's de rigeur.

What about regional differences in dance behaviour/etiquette? Apparently in Hong Kong and Turkey, tango milongas actually have a really friendly, welcoming atmosphere, where everyone askes anyone else to dance, vastly different from the english tango scene. I don't know if it's there are similar differences in MJ.

Dan

[Zuhal]

Care to expand on the Turkish aspect. pls

I am planning to go to a Milonga in Istanbul in April.

Zuhal

[gebandemuishond]

Care to expand on the Turkish aspect. pls

I am planning to go to a Milonga in Istanbul in April.

Zuhal

I've never been myself, but a friend who'se been tangoing all over the place said Istanbul was one of the most welcoming places she'd ever been. Things like: Strangers asked her to dance without having watched her first, and it was the only time she's ever been escorted off the dancefloor after a dance.

I'll ask her more when I see her. I hope the milonga is lots of fun, I'm v jealous!

Dan

[Yogi_Bear]

Reading this thread has reminded me how much I hated finger clicking and refused to go along with it, and how stamping used to be quite normal (but now it seems to have gone out of vogue). Though at our local Ceroc class a couple of weeks ago the teacher was actually encouraging everyone to be 'bouncy'. What with that and the dreaded 'draw a semi-circle'.......

[Juju]

Salsa and merengue are different dances, danced to a different beat.

Salsa and merengue are also different courses, eaten at a different time.

Sorry. Can't help myself.