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Thread: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

  1. #61
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    Re: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

    Quote Originally Posted by SuzyQ View Post
    DTS,

    I think you are a great bloke and if you think Jive Lad is a great guy then I am sure he is. But, that doesn't mean that what he said wasn't really really patronising given that he was offering his advice to a complete stranger!

    All in all, it is easy for men (who are in demand because of their number rather than their dance ability) to say really dumb things to women because they have no idea what it can be like as a follow when there are just too many women around!!

    Guys try to imagine what it is like to be in our sparkly high heels for once before dishing out advice!!

    SuzyQ
    True but the amount of times I've stood in a beginners class being told by a beginner follower how to do a move is shocking. Moreso when they haven't a clue what they are on about.

    It does work both ways.

    Though I'm not yet sure what it is like to dance in high heels. Perhaps Mr McG could shed some light on this?

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    Re: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

    Quote Originally Posted by JiveLad View Post
    .....here's a recipe:

    1. See the refusal from your perspective
    2. See the refusal from the perspective of the person who refused you
    3. Play it thru as an outsider watching the event

    Next - what practical lessons did you learn? What would you do/feel differently next time?
    Useful looking perspective - stepping back and considering seeing what lessons might be learnt.


    It isn't necessarily my loss if I'm refused (or their loss). Sometimes it is, especially if it comprises my ability or confidence to ask for further dances.

    However it can be hard to tell if someone likes dancing with you or is simply being polite. I usually (not always) would prefer not to dance with someone who doesn't want to dance with me, and a refusal can make that clearer.


    Also to a degree the number of refusals depends on how adventurous you are in asking. If you're not getting/expecting a certain proportion of refusals, you may also be missing out in terms of dances you could have had.

    So personally I think a few more refusals, and them not being rare enough to remember long, can be a bit of a measure of progress.

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    Re: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    Also to a degree the number of refusals depends on how adventurous you are in asking. If you're not getting/expecting a certain proportion of refusals, you may also be missing out in terms of dances you could have had.
    Does anyone expect a refusal when asking?

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    Re: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post


    Also to a degree the number of refusals depends on how adventurous you are in asking. If you're not getting/expecting a certain proportion of refusals, you may also be missing out in terms of dances you could have had.

    So personally I think a few more refusals, and them not being rare enough to remember long, can be a bit of a measure of progress.
    Good point there.
    A few polite refusals from dancers who are better than you will toughen you up, and they might actually consent one day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    Does anyone expect a refusal when asking?
    Asking a stranger always carries a risk of refusal. You have no idea what will happen.
    Last edited by Astro; 10th-March-2008 at 05:41 PM.

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    Re: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    Does anyone expect a refusal when asking?
    yes, at a non Ceroc night after they've seen me being refused by other non dancers.

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    Re: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

    Quote Originally Posted by dep View Post
    yes, at a non Ceroc night after they've seen me being refused by other non dancers.
    I've not had refusals in Night Clubs!

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    Re: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

    I sincerely hope there isn't much in the way of people being rejected on the basis of ability or having to feel intimidated by it. For beginning guys, I would think women would be encouraging enough considering the gender imbalance to keep them coming back. On the flip side, dancing with beginners for guys is useful to honing your leading skills. And it can be very rewarding for both parties to see a beginners joy at improving and a lot of fun laughing with each other at the mistakes. I could put a lot of my early dances in that last category and they'd often be as much fun as when I did things right. All I can say is when I get better, if I'm ever caught turning down a dance on the basis of ability they can give me a good hard slap. Bottom line, no-one is too good to dance with anyone.

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    Re: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    I've not had refusals in Night Clubs!
    send me lot's of tips (PM if necessary).

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    Re: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

    Quote Originally Posted by dep View Post
    send me lot's of tips (PM if necessary).
    Ask the drunk ones.

    That is all.

    *runs away*

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    Re: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    Ask the drunk ones.

    That is all.

    *runs away*
    but I can't lead them if they're past standing/spinning/twirling/even following.

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    Re: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    Does anyone expect a refusal when asking?
    If you assume an expected less than 50% chance of acceptance, there are circumstances it does happen. (My post was about expecting say 10% refusals; that wasn't about be asking expecting a refusal to a particular request).


    The rare situations where I might ask at below 50% is to establish whether a lady wants to dance to me, in favourable circumstances.

    Or I'm desparate to dance to a particular track.

    Or I feel sorry for the lady, because while there is less than a 50% chance of dancing, if in the unlikely event she did want to dance, she is having a really bad night.


    If the circumstances are such that a refusal won't have much of a negative impact.


    I would have thought some people would ask star dancers with less than a 50% chance of acceptance, simply because the rewards are acceptance are so great compared to the cost of refusal for them (most likely to apply to ladies).

    But it would be interesting to know who would be willing to ask generally (without mitigating circumstances), given less than a 50% chance of acceptance.

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    Re: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    If you assume an expected less than 50% chance of acceptance, there are circumstances it does happen. ................
    But it would be interesting to know who would be willing to ask generally (without mitigating circumstances), given less than a 50% chance of acceptance.
    I guess I dance with 100 or so Cerocers each week. I hope that my refusals rate is down around 1 to 3. If that 98% acceptance fell to 50%, I would go home and get the gun out.

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    Re: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

    Those seem shocking percentages. I don't know how many dances I've had, its probably about 300 and I ask everyone (although am starting to find I don't need to anymore ). In that time I think I've been turned down 3-4 times, all for genuine reasons and have always been given the subsequent dance. Thats the way it should be really I can't recall turning down a dance yet even when I'm dragged half asleep from my chair, although I probably should start!
    Last edited by ChrisB; 10th-March-2008 at 06:26 PM.

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    Re: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

    1 x rule for me if i ask for a dance and am refused without a valid reason...

    I never ask that person again, however i do tend to forget who i am not going to dance with and if they ask i will dance with them.

    As a man and a minority in dance i dont really have a problem getting dances


    DTS Dave XXX XXX

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    Re: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    Does anyone expect a refusal when asking?
    That would depend on who you are asking. Some people are renowned refusers, so we only ask for the sport

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    Re: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

    I was at the bar in Ashtons once and having a conversation with 2 girls.

    When the conversation was over i walked away as i did one of the girls gave the other one a look that suggested what a wan*er about me.

    I have never danced with the one with the look again, and will never ask her.

    The thing is it is no loss to a bloke because there are, literally, plenty more fish in the sea.

    I have said it before p*ss too many men off and you will be dancing with your handbags girlys.
    DTS Dave XXX XXX

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    Re: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    Ask the drunk ones.

    That is all.

    *runs away*
    Or stand in the dark corners?

    (Before Robd or Rocky sees this and feels the urge to pass their usual insults, I don't go to nightclubs!!)

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    Re: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    I know EXACTLY who you mean...she only ever dances with her husband and he only ever dances with her. Well...that was the case until me and my sister got hold of him. We both bullied him in to a dance and practically dragged him up to the dance floor.

    I wished I hadn't bothered...the problem with people who dance with one person all the time is...well...they are crap.

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    Re: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

    Quote Originally Posted by SuzyQ View Post
    All in all, it is easy for men (who are in demand because of their number rather than their dance ability)
    There is only one of me. No matter how well I dance there will always only be one of me.

    In the time I have been dancing I have noticed the demand to dance with me increase.
    There was one of me when I started to dance and nobody wanted to dance with me; there is one of me now when I rarely get a chance to sit down because of women asking me to dance.

    I do not believe I am in demand because of my number.

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    Re: is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    Does anyone expect a refusal when asking?
    Not when asking.

    I don't go to a dance party expecting that I will never be refused during the evening; but every time I ask someone to dance, I expect the invitation to be accepted (if I didn't expect it to be accepted, why would I ask?).

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