is it really 'their loss/someone else's gain' when someone is refused?

[robd]

Just thinking back over recent threads (too lazy to quote) the response from a few people (including myself I have to admit in the past) to tales of refusals has been 'their loss is someone else's gain' or similar. Whilst I don't condone the manner of some refusals as reported by the refusee (is there such a thing?) I really think that people are kidding themselves with this train of thought (and maybe all it represents is a comfort blanket). The refuser likely doesn't give a flying about not dancing with the person they refused so they wouldn't ever view it as a loss would they?

My take on refusals is simple (even simpler given that I don't ask very often) - if refused for whatever reason and in whatever manner (polite or otherwise) I will not ask that person again until they have asked me to dance. However I appreciate the scenario is a lot different for leaders than followers.

[straycat]

In the end, I don't really care whether the refuser has lost out or not. It's unlikely that I have lost out - I'd rather not dance than dance with someone who truly doesn't want to dance with me... last time that happened, I very nearly asked the lady in question why she said 'yes' to the dance, as from the first beat of the track 'till the end she was completely uninterested. (and it wasn't that she was a bad dancer - quite the reverse)

The only action I'm likely to take is to never ask 'em to dance again. Until I've completely forgotten the incident, or at least forgotten what they looked like (this usually takes at least an hour)

[JiveLad]

Just thinking back over recent threads (too lazy to quote) the response from a few people (including myself I have to admit in the past) to tales of refusals has been 'their loss is someone else's gain' or similar. Whilst I don't condone the manner of some refusals as reported by the refusee (is there such a thing?) I really think that people are kidding themselves with this train of thought (and maybe all it represents is a comfort blanket). The refuser likely doesn't give a flying about not dancing with the person they refused so they wouldn't ever view it as a loss would they?

My take on refusals is simple (even simpler given that I don't ask very often) - if refused for whatever reason and in whatever manner (polite or otherwise) I will not ask that person again until they have asked me to dance. However I appreciate the scenario is a lot different for leaders than followers.

Well I have to agree with the above. And it took one year for a particular lady to ask me (she refused me when I was a beginner by looking at the floor and shaking her head..... ). Since then it is fine.....we can comfortably ask each other.

The last refusal I remember was a few months ago at a Cheshunt freestyle - and my first (attempted) dance of the evening at 9 o'clock. I approached a mid 50's lady in upbeat JiveLad fashion only to be told "No - I'm tired" - then saw her dancing to the next track. Well - I'm sure she wasn't thinking about the loss at all - and she just danced with the same partner all night.....And in this case, she sure as hell ain't gonna ask JiveLad in this lifetime........

Sometimes it happens - sometimes there are people there who are not into social dancing - or who want to dance with same partner for whatever reason. I accepted it - and that was no big deal for me. (Obviously that situation is different to a refusal where the dancer is dancing with a variety of partners).

(Just as a side issue I'm getting a bit of a vibe that I don't do enough asking these days. More often than not it ends up being what I call a 'mutual'. ie you both look and kind of 'ask' via smile / raised eyebrows....). Sure this is all covered in many other threads...

[Double Trouble]

:and she just danced with the same partner all night.....

I know EXACTLY who you mean...she only ever dances with her husband and he only ever dances with her. Well...that was the case until me and my sister got hold of him. We both bullied him in to a dance and practically dragged him up to the dance floor.

I wished I hadn't bothered...the problem with people who dance with one person all the time is...well...they are crap.

[johnnyman]

My attitude is to let ladies ask me to dance. That way I can gauge people's reactions.

Another thing that has proved beneficial is the increase in social events i.e. Utopia and Southport where you meet different people as well as those in your regular venues and you also make new acquaintances for future consideration as pure social dance partners.

It is a shame that people do this, but for every down there is an up and as mentioned, it is their loss, not yours. The chances are you are probably a better dancer than they ever will be.

best
johnnyman

[Cruella]

I really think that people are kidding themselves with this train of thought (and maybe all it represents is a comfort blanket). The refuser likely doesn't give a flying about not dancing with the person they refused so they wouldn't ever view it as a loss would they?

Of course it is a comfort blanket, it's just like saying 'there are plenty more fish in the sea' when someone has split with their loved one.

My take on refusals is simple (even simpler given that I don't ask very often) - if refused for whatever reason and in whatever manner (polite or otherwise) I will not ask that person again until they have asked me to dance. However I appreciate the scenario is a lot different for leaders than followers.

Absolutely it's different for leads, if you are a decent lead you don't have to ask at all, the women do all the work. (and then you men complain about never getting to rest! No pleasing some people) If we had the luxury of not asking that refuser again we would. Although I must admit they are usually the last resort. (Unless i'm trying to win a bet)

[robd]

as mentioned, it is their loss, not yours.

Well, except that this thread is about my belief that they don't see it as their loss at all.

The chances are you are probably a better dancer than they ever will be.

Really? Why? I would suggest that the people who regularly refuse are probably among the more accomplished dancers (if not always as good as they might themselves believe) which is probably the reason that they are being asked to dance in the first place. Beggars can't be choosers and crap dancers are unlikely to be refusers.

[David Bailey]

My take on refusals is simple (even simpler given that I don't ask very often) - if refused for whatever reason and in whatever manner (polite or otherwise) I will not ask that person again until they have asked me to dance.

That's also my exact approach. Well, unless I really fancy them.

At least, on a per-night basis, my memory's not usually good enough for me to hold a grudge any longer than that.

[StokeBloke]

My take on refusals is simple (even simpler given that I don't ask very often) - if refused for whatever reason and in whatever manner (polite or otherwise) I will not ask that person again until they have asked me to dance. However I appreciate the scenario is a lot different for leaders than followers.

Sometimes we make a refusal for genuine reasons - if I do I try to seek out the person that I refused to redress the balance. That to one side, I want to discuss 'refusers' from the dirty look school of saying no.

It is their loss in as much as they are passing up the chance to spend some time on the dance floor with someone who would really like to dance with them, there by missing a great dance. It is their loss in as much as people will lose a little respect for them every time it comes to light that they behave this way. This in turn may put people who they WOULD like to dance with off asking them; as they get known as a refuser (or a low life stinking piece of hotshot filth - which ever term you prefer to use). They lose out in discovering new dancers. They lose out on the social aspect of chatting to new people. They lose out on that dancer introducing them to other dancers - the word of mouth network.

To take the recent example of The Twat in the Hat who refused Fletch. She knows a lot of excellent follows. You think that when word starts to get around how he behaved he won't lose out on dances? I know for a fact that he will. I see him often at dances in the Derby/Nottingham area and I know that the amount he gets asked will diminish as a direct result of his despicable caddish behaviour.

So the losses may be almost too small to measure individually, but I think that there is a drip drip effect and all those losses slowly add up to one great big scumbag of a sad lonely loser

[Easily Led]

..............
So the losses may be almost too small to measure individually, but I think that there is a drip drip effect and all those losses slowly add up to one great big scumbag of a sad lonely loser

[Gerry]

[quote=StokeBloke;458241]
This in turn may put people who they WOULD like to dance with off asking them; as they get known as a refuser (or a low life stinking piece of hotshot filth - which ever term you prefer to use).

Stokie
Don't hold back

[David Bailey]

Good grief, kids, do you have to go on and on and on and on and on and on about this one refuser all the time?

You're making me want to wear a hat now...

Blimey, even Rocky's trolling is more entertaining than this.

[Cruella]

You're making me want to wear a hat now... .

Balaclava?

[Gadget]

'their loss is someone else's gain' or similar. ~ The refuser likely doesn't give a flying about not dancing with the person they refused so they wouldn't ever view it as a loss would they?

Do they have to know about it or view it as a loss for it to be their loss?
If (unbeknown to them) I had £500 and was going to gift it to them on the condition of them having a dance with me; if they then refused, it would be their loss. Can monetary wealth be equated to dancing pleasure?

[fletch]

Good grief, kids, do you have to go on and on and on and on and on and on about this one refuser all the time?

You're making me want to wear a hat now...

Blimey, even Rocky's trolling is more entertaining than this.

so you wan't entertaining, just wish I had time I have to go to work

Balaclava?

how about a pair of my old tights

[SuzyQ]

Well, except that this thread is about my belief that they don't see it as their loss at all.

Really? Why? I would suggest that the people who regularly refuse are probably among the more accomplished dancers (if not always as good as they might themselves believe) which is probably the reason that they are being asked to dance in the first place. Beggars can't be choosers and crap dancers are unlikely to be refusers.

Of course they don't see it as a loss, and of course it is a coping mechanism.

Boy my dancing must be rubbish the number of times I've been refused.

Why not interpret the refusers as being among the more obnoxious people in life ... rather than among the most accomplished dancers!!!

[JiveLad]

......

Why not interpret the refusers as being among the more obnoxious people in life ... rather than among the most accomplished dancers!!!

Why not? - because your compassion is another way......here's a recipe:

1. See the refusal from your perspective
2. See the refusal from the perspective of the person who refused you
3. Play it thru as an outsider watching the event

Next - what practical lessons did you learn? What would you do/feel differently next time?

Then - with regard to your feelings about being refused: what aspects of yourself are being reflected back. Remember - the world is your mirror!

Next - release blame and forgive that person.

Tough to do - however you can apply this to any 'difficult' situation in your life....

[Lory]

My take on refusals is simple (even simpler given that I don't ask very often) - if refused for whatever reason and in whatever manner (polite or otherwise) I will not ask that person again until they have asked me to dance. However I appreciate the scenario is a lot different for leaders than followers.

I know its not the same for leaders as followers but I still adopt the same approach as you. Even though someone might refuse in a 'nice' way and give a valid reason, I still need them to ask me, to reassure me, that they actually 'want' to dance with me.
But then again, I'm actually even worse than you.. I don't even like to keep asking the same person, week after week, even if they don't refuse me. I need the occasional reasurrance of them asking me back!

So sometimes I just stop asking

[MartinHarper]

The refuser likely doesn't give a flying about not dancing with the person they refused so they wouldn't ever view it as a loss would they?

If someone refuses me, it can only be because they don't know how awesome I am. As soon as they see me dance with someone else they will understand that by refusing they have lost out.

[eeyore]

I know its not the same for leaders as followers but I still adopt the same approach as you. Even though someone might refuse in a 'nice' way and give a valid reason, I still need them to ask me, to reassure me, that they actually 'want' to dance with me.
But then again, I'm actually even worse than you.. I don't even like to keep asking the same person, week after week, even if they don't refuse me. I need the occasional reasurrance of them asking me back!

So sometimes I just stop asking

- there are lots of people I love to dance with, but I agree, it makes my day when they ask me . Depends on my mood, most of the time I'll ask anyway because I'd love to dance with them - but other times I shy away unless it's someone who asks me too...

Re refusing, I won't ask someone again if they refuse me (thankfully doesn't happen often - dance etiquette is a wonderful thing ) unless they've asked me since...