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Thread: Binge Drinking what can we do ?

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    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Binge Drinking what can we do ?

    I was wondering if the forum could sort out the UK binge drinking problem ?

    I guess we just need to find out who is to ‘blame’ and then ‘address’ the issue

    Can we sort this out by Friday to stop another weekend of carnage

    Causes of Binge drinking

    A google search (binge drinking who is to blame) gave me 28,000 responses I just pick some in the top 20 of the search



    Rising house prices ?

    BBC NEWS | Magazine | 'Binge drinking? Blame house prices'

    Supermarkets ?

    Open House: Don't blame supermarkets for binge drinking

    The Taxman ?

    THE TAXMAN | News Headlines | Binge Drinking Is To Blame

    AA ?

    Alcoholics Anonymous Reviews: Binge drinking to blame for half of all UK violence

    Government ?


    Binge Drinking Alcohol Abuse-Is The British Government Partly To Blame? - Yahoo! Answers

    Parents ?

    Binge-drinking is as British as rain - Telegraph

    Licensing laws ?

    Licensing laws review binge-drinking culture | Newsblog | Guardian Unlimited

    Amy Whitehouse

    Letters: Binge-drinking problem? Blame Amy Winehouse! - Salon

    Crate and Barrel ?

    Althouse: People are drinking way too much. Blame Crate & Barrell.

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    Re: Binge Drinking what can we do ?

    two possible solutions from many:-
    set a sensible weekly limit and spread the consumption fairly evenly over the whole week,
    or
    let all us martyrs drink the pubs and supermarkets dry before the week end arrives to save all those lost souls from self harm.

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    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Binge Drinking what can we do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dep View Post
    two possible solutions from many:-
    set a sensible weekly limit and spread the consumption fairly evenly over the whole week,
    or
    let all us martyrs drink the pubs and supermarkets dry before the week end arrives to save all those lost souls from self harm.
    Do you think the papers are making more of a problem then there is ?

    Special report: Binge drinking | the Daily Mail

    How about ban booze for a year ??

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Binge Drinking what can we do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Do you think the papers are making more of a problem then there is ?
    Well, yeah. I mean, that's what papers do.

    Deregulation of licensing laws has probably been a good thing economically - it usually is. So it's good news for the entertainment industry.

    On the other hand, it clearly has a price - cheaper booze, easier-to-access, means that we have more chance of drunken teenagers etc., and possibly more danger of violent crime.

    Same applies to deregulation of the gambling industry - there are benefits and there are costs.

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    Cool Re: Binge Drinking what can we do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Do you think the papers are making more of a problem then there is ?

    Special report: Binge drinking | the Daily Mail

    How about ban booze for a year ??
    If it's the Daily Mail, then quite probably

    On the continent they don't have anything like this problem (except when the British are there on holiday). I personally think that this is because they have a better relationship with alcohol. For example in France children are given wine with meals (usually watered down a little). This teaches them that it's OK to enjoy a little wine with a meal. It slowly introduces them to drinking responsibly.

    In comparison, in the UK alcohol is demonised to kids. In true adolescent fashion it then becomes the most highly prized substance. Getting it, and lots of it, gives huge amounts of kudos from the peer group. Once they manage to get 'off the leash' they don't know what they are supposed to do with this drug, so they opt for the 'look how tough I am I can drink 10 pints' option.

    Can it be fixed by this weekend? I would say not. The whole of society needs to change its attitude towards drink and drinking before it can filter through to the next generation.

    Of course you could as has been suggested, ban it. That worked soooo well with cannabis

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    Re: Binge Drinking what can we do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    Of course you could as has been suggested, ban it. That worked soooo well with cannabis
    Last time I looked, it was banned (to under 18's). As you say Stokie...banning it is pointless.

    I saw some program about teenage binge drinkers recently. There was a bunch of teenagers hanging around some park or other, drinking. All the police did was take the cider and lager from the under age drinkers and pour it away.

    What good is that? They said that was all they could do as they were not causing a disturbance or fighting, etc. One policeman even admitted that they would probably go buy some more cider, get drunk and kick off later, but they couldn't hang around all night waiting for 'something' to happen.

    The police have a difficult job. Where are the parents?

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    Re: Binge Drinking what can we do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    On the continent they don't have anything like this problem (except when the British are there on holiday). I personally think that this is because they have a better relationship with alcohol.
    You know, I think it's more like the drinking environments themselves affect it?

    The typical British drinking environment (a pub) is a "cram them in" place, aiming to get as many people in, drinking as much as possible, in as short a time as possible.

    The typical continental drinking environment (a cafe) is more relaxed, it's more spread out, and it aims to sell you other stuff, rather than just stuff booze down your neck.

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    Of course you could as has been suggested, ban it. That worked soooo well with cannabis
    OK, here's one out-of-the-box suggestion - remove (most of) the tax on alcohol.

    Currently, there's a perverse incentive for the government to promote sales of alcohol, because it makes money out of it. Remove the tax, and alcohol doesn't become a Forbidden Expensive product, it's just another commodity like cheese. Less money, less profit for the entertainment business, who then have to compete properly with value rather than quantity.

    Continental Europe doesn't tax alcohol...

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    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Binge Drinking what can we do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    In comparison, in the UK alcohol is demonised to kids. In true adolescent fashion it then becomes the most highly prized substance. Getting it, and lots of it, gives huge amounts of kudos from the peer group. Once they manage to get 'off the leash' they don't know what they are supposed to do with this drug, so they opt for the 'look how tough I am I can drink 10 pints' option.
    If I got pissed out of my head 25yrs ago and was 'naughty' there would be some kind of shame, ok might only feel the shame for a week but it would be there. Getting **** was not 'cool'

    ‘Now days’, id have someone film it and put it on Face Book and be a Hero its ‘cool’

    The 'debate' yesterday on Tele made me laugh

    Options debated range from

    Raising drinking age to 21
    Banding it Supermarkets or massive increase in prices
    Etc etc


    1 min was given to France (25 miles across the water) where you can drink at 2 and buy 42 liters of wine for 50p but they don’t appear to have the same problem. Maybe we should be made to eat or wear onions from a younger age and ride those silly bikes ??

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    Re: Binge Drinking what can we do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Maybe we should be made to eat or wear onions from a younger age and ride those silly bikes ??
    I might be wrong, but I don't think thats compulsory if you are French.

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    Cool Re: Binge Drinking what can we do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    1 min was given to France (25 miles across the water) where you can drink at 2 and buy 42 liters of wine for 50p but they don’t appear to have the same problem. Maybe we should be made to eat or wear onions from a younger age and ride those silly bikes ??
    I wish the UK was more like France in many ways, especially the weather We were there recently and noticed that the local wine was cheaper than bottled water in one shop.... now that's what I call putting the 'super' into supermarket





    Although there was a ruddy cheeked, disheveled looking gentleman with two day's worth of stubble at the checkout. He was buying two flagons of the local red wine, a loaf of bread and a hardcore DVD. Well... when in Rome

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    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: Binge Drinking what can we do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    I was wondering if the forum could sort out the UK binge drinking problem ?
    Of course we can...

    Isn't the best way to get rid of one addiction is to replace it with another? Get them dancing

    Can't spin when you're p!ssed

    On a more serious note (though the above is only semi-joking - if people had something better to do, they might not be quite so inclined to drink so much), I believe that historically, Britain has always been a nation of p!ss-heads. There were efforts to close down the gin palaces in Victorian London because it was thought that people drank too much (too much to make them capable of working I believe - their captialist masters didn't approve).

    Am not saying that things shouldn't change, but that historical precedent should be noted and and learnt from...

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    Re: Binge Drinking what can we do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Well, yeah. I mean, that's what papers do.

    Deregulation of licensing laws has probably been a good thing economically - it usually is. So it's good news for the entertainment industry.

    On the other hand, it clearly has a price - cheaper booze, easier-to-access, means that we have more chance of drunken teenagers etc., and possibly more danger of violent crime.
    Has deregulation made booze cheaper? I thought that the deregulation was basically only a case of extending drinking hours? I dont see how this has made booze cheaper. Drink prices have apparently been coming down, but in supermarkets - i certainly havent noticed any cheap prices in the pubs! Ok so some places do happy hours but i cant really see how you can blame 24 hour licenses for this?
    Last edited by David Bailey; 5th-March-2008 at 04:39 PM. Reason: Fix quote

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    Re: Binge Drinking what can we do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    There were efforts to close down the gin palaces in Victorian London because it was thought that people drank too much (too much to make them capable of working I believe - their captialist masters didn't approve).
    Didnt people get pissed quitely in those days (I suspect they didn't) ok looks like not going to sort by weekend


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    Victorian London - Entertainment and Recreation - Drinking - Gin - Gin Palaces

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    Re: Binge Drinking what can we do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jhutch View Post
    Has deregulation made booze cheaper?
    No, sorry, I was being lazy - by "deregulation" I meant a combination of several factors, including the change in licensing laws, the relaxation of "home consumption" rules for importing booze, plus the increased ease of access to cheap alcohol on the continent.

    And yes, I think booze has got cheaper - you can get a decent bottle of wine from Tescos for a fiver now, which is as good or better than it was 10 years ago.

    But blaming increased licensing laws - or any factor - on rising crime etc. is far too simplistic. Hell, it's not even clear that crime is rising.

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    Re: Binge Drinking what can we do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    *snip*Can't spin when you're p!ssed *snip*
    I do spin better when pissed - dunno why....
    although I guess it all depends on if you're talking about pissed or possed (i.e. passed pissed).

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    Re: Binge Drinking what can we do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    On the other hand, it clearly has a price - cheaper booze, easier-to-access, means that we have more chance of drunken teenagers etc., and possibly more danger of violent crime.
    From a page I was linked to in the easily most well written blog I've seen so far (Random Acts Of Reality :: Main Page, which I recommend everybody takes a look at) here are some facts and figures on drinking in the UK taken from 2007.

    In its alcohol statistics bulletin, the most comprehensive and up to date compendium of facts and figures about alcohol consumption in England, The IC also found that:

    Among children under 16 there were 5,280 NHS Hospital admissions in 2005/06 with either a primary or secondary diagnosis specifically related to alcohol. This represents an overall increase of just over a third from 3,870 in 1995/96.

    In 2005, 6,570 people died from causes directly linked to alcohol consumption, of these just under two thirds (4,160) died from alcoholic liver disease. Two thirds (67 per cent) of those dying from alcoholic liver disease were men.

    In England in 2005, 73 per cent of men and 58 per cent of women reported drinking an alcoholic drink on at least one day in the week prior to interview. Thirteen per cent of men and 8 per cent of women reported drinking on every day in the previous week.

    Thirty-four per cent of men and 20 per cent of women had drunk more than the recommended number of units on at least one day in the week prior to interview. Eighteen per cent of men and 8 per cent of women had drunk more than twice the recommended daily intake.

    Older people were more likely to drink regularly – 28 per cent of men and 18 per cent of women aged 45-64 drank on five or more days in the week prior to interview compared to 10 per cent of men and 5 per cent of women aged 16-24. Younger people were more likely to drink heavily, with 42 per cent of men and 36 per cent of women aged 16-24 drinking above the daily recommendations compared to 16 per cent of men and 4 per cent of women aged 65 and over.

    Among men, 24 per cent reported drinking on average more than 21 units in a week. For women, 13 per cent reported drinking more than 14 units in an average week.
    For the rest of the article you can view Press release | The Information Centre

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    Re: Binge Drinking what can we do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ~*~Saligal~*~ View Post
    I do spin better when pissed - dunno why....
    everyone thinks they do better when intoxicated.
    But next morning, if one can remember only being asked up for three dances, it might just dawn on one that there could be a reason.

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    Re: Binge Drinking what can we do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    For example in France children are given wine with meals (usually watered down a little). This teaches them that it's OK to enjoy a little wine with a meal. It slowly introduces them to drinking responsibly.
    some cliches will never die

    FWIW in my experience of France, so about 24 years 18 of which being 'underage', a child (say 10-15 years old) may get a sip out of their mum's champagne glass at a wedding. Or a sip of wine at a family gathering. Usually at this age you find it disgusting anyway, so hardly ask for more


    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    1 min was given to France (25 miles across the water) where you can drink at 2 and buy 42 liters of wine for 50p
    No French person in their right mind would do that, though. That sort of wine we use in vinaigrettes when we ran out of vinegar.
    There's a reason that's sold close to the border though...


    Not sure anybody mentioned yet, but in France alcohol is heavily taxed, and even more so in pubs and clubs - a vodka coke (say) will cost you over 11 euros in a club...
    There's a big cultural thing about the way people behave with alcohol, but if you wanted somewhere to start from...

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    Re: Binge Drinking what can we do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    Not sure anybody mentioned yet, but in France alcohol is heavily taxed, and even more so in pubs and clubs - a vodka coke (say) will cost you over 11 euros in a club...
    The French and many other EC countries apply unequal taxes to the alcohol sold, usually favouring their home product.
    Britain used to do the same for beer, but has started to equalise the alcohol tax, but not quite there yet.

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Binge Drinking what can we do ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    FWIW in my experience of France, so about 24 years 18 of which being 'underage', a child (say 10-15 years old) may get a sip out of their mum's champagne glass at a wedding. Or a sip of wine at a family gathering. Usually at this age you find it disgusting anyway, so hardly ask for more
    Yep, that's exactly what I did with my son when he was 5 - I gave him a sip of beer and a sip of wine (separate occasions). He hated them both - so now he's hopefully been imprinted with the concept that alcohol Tastes Like Wee

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    Not sure anybody mentioned yet, but in France alcohol is heavily taxed, and even more so in pubs and clubs - a vodka coke (say) will cost you over 11 euros in a club...
    What are the tax rates on alcohol in France then? Do you have a link?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    There's a big cultural thing about the way people behave with alcohol, but if you wanted somewhere to start from...
    There's an interesting article here, and one relevant part caught my eye:
    the Britons, accustomed to grain-based alcoholic beverages, considered them a special commodity, a kind of treat or escape from the burdens of daily life. By contrast, the French, accustomed to primarily grape-based alcohol, considered it very much a part of daily life, literally like food.
    Does that sound like a reasonable comparison? Certainly that's my opinion... The English think of alcohol as recreation, the French think of it as a commodity?

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