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Thread: One for Barry

  1. #141
    Registered User Isis's Avatar
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    Re: One for Barry

    This thread has reminded me of a good sermon I heard in Church, which has stuck in my mind (stay with me folks ):

    A flood has been forecast and the residents of a little village have been warned to evacuate.

    A devoutly religious man, let's call him Barry (do you see what I did there? ) refuses to leave. His family plead with him but he tells them "I have faith, The Lord will save me." They have to leave without him.

    As the water level rises, a neighbour calls for Barry in his little dinghy and asks him to come with him. Barry refuses to leave. "I have faith, The Lord will save me."

    The water level rises further and a rescue boat is sent to the village to see if there are any people left stranded. They offer to take Barry to safety but he refuses to leave. "I have faith, The Lord will save me."

    When Barry is forced to sit on the roof of his house, a rescue helicopter arrives to take him to safety but again he refuses to leave. "I have faith, The Lord will save me."

    Barry drowns.

    When he reaches Heaven he is furious and demands an appointment with God. "I am a good and devout person. I put all my faith in you. Why did you not save me?"

    God is pretty exasperated with Barry and replies "I sent you umpteen people, two boats and a helicopter, what more did you want?"

    And the moral of the story, preached by a religious priest, in a mainstream religious Church to a large group of religious people: By all means have faith and pray but do not expect magical solutions to your problems.

  2. #142
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    Re: One for Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    ...snip funny but meaningful story...

    And the moral of the story, preached by a religious priest, in a mainstream religious Church to a large group of religious people: By all means have faith and pray but do not expect magical solutions to your problems.
    My Godfather recently told my he believes the Pope has magical powers. I was a bit shocked and I can't help wondering how he can believe that, but I'm glad he still goes to the doctor when he needs actual healing.

    I'd probably find it easier to swallow if they elected a Pope who looked like Albus Dumbledor, though if he looked like Paul Daniels I'd just think of Wizbit (who remembers that?).

  3. #143
    Registered User Isis's Avatar
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    Re: One for Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Feet View Post
    BTW thought it was quite funny in that article about the Russian cult when it said they were planning on coming out after the end of the world...erm
    When June comes around and they are all still alive and kicking, they will no doubt decide that God has rewarded them for their faith by not ending the world after all.

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    Re: One for Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Feet View Post
    though if he looked like Paul Daniels I'd just think of Wizbit (who remembers that?).
    Wizbit used to scare the cr@p out of me when I was 4. I mean, it was a giant talking cone with a face that did magic tricks... Freaky as.

  5. #145
    Registered User Isis's Avatar
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    Re: One for Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Feet View Post
    My Godfather recently told my he believes the Pope has magical powers. I was a bit shocked and I can't help wondering how he can believe that, but I'm glad he still goes to the doctor when he needs actual healing.
    Yeah but isn't he the guy who has an appointment with Jan de Vries every Saturday morning and spends a small fortune on homeopathic remedies?

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    Re: One for Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Another religious nutter. A rather more harmless one.
    Imagine if it had been a priest doing a TV interview and someone dressed as Satan leaped the wall and layed into him with a metal stick - i doubt the news article would be so flippant

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    Re: One for Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    Yeah but isn't he the guy who has an appointment with Jan de Vries every Saturday morning and spends a small fortune on homeopathic remedies?
    If it makes him happy...

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    Re: One for Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Imagine if it had been a priest doing a TV interview and someone dressed as Satan leaped the wall and layed into him with a metal stick - i doubt the news article would be so flippant
    But we'd be lucky to have you to be flippant for us...

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    Re: One for Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Feet View Post
    But we'd be lucky to have you to be flippant for us...
    well i do try , but I'd find physical violence harder to be flippant about

    I saw a sandwich board newspaper title the other week that had "Bishop Attacks Gay Rights Lobby" I did picture the Bishop laying into them with a metal stick, shouting "Poofs! Poofs!" - but apparantly it was only a verbal attack.

    So just the "Poofs! Poofs!" bit then.

    Bishops. They move diagonaly.

  10. #150
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    Re: One for Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Imagine if it had been a priest doing a TV interview and someone dressed as Satan leaped the wall and layed into him with a metal stick - i doubt the news article would be so flippant
    Quite right. This was clearly a hate crime!

    It's about time that followers of the Jedi religion were treated with the respect and seriousness that they deserve...

  11. #151
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    Re: One for Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    It's about time that followers of the Jedi religion were treated with the respect and seriousness that they deserve...

    Quite right!! That goes for most other religious spokesman too.

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    Re: One for Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    This thread has reminded me of a good sermon I heard in Church, which has stuck in my mind (stay with me folks ):

    <snip fable>

    And the moral of the story, preached by a religious priest, in a mainstream religious Church to a large group of religious people: By all means have faith and pray but do not expect magical solutions to your problems.
    That story does nothing more than remind me that the man, rather than take responsibility for his actions, abjurated(sp?) all his responsibility to God.

    And died.

    Pretty much what you would expect for anyone delusional enough to leave life threatening decisions to supernatural creatures.

    Whether that same logic can be applied in the case of the dead daughter I do not know, but it wouldn't surprize me.

    Such a pointless and insane outcome inspired by a pointless and insane belief in that case.

  13. #153
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    Re: One for Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    That story does nothing more than remind me that the man, rather than take responsibility for his actions, abjurated(sp?) all his responsibility to God.

    And died.

    Pretty much what you would expect for anyone delusional enough to leave life threatening decisions to supernatural creatures.

    Whether that same logic can be applied in the case of the dead daughter I do not know, but it wouldn't surprize me.

    Such a pointless and insane outcome inspired by a pointless and insane belief in that case.




    I was in a blizzard last year top of the peak district and thought I was a gonner. Got on my knees and prayed to God that he would let me live

    Then some local guides turn up and took me back

    What was the point of praying to god then


    We see what we want to see

  14. #154
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    Re: One for Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    That story does nothing more than remind me that the man, rather than take responsibility for his actions, abjurated(sp?) all his responsibility to God.

    And died.

    Such a pointless and insane outcome inspired by a pointless and insane belief in that case.
    Er..that is exactly what the story is supposed to illustrate. The guy isn't a hero in the story. It's pretty clear he's an eejit and should have saved himself rather than drown!

    I'll repeat the punchline - do not expect magical solutions to your problems

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    Re: One for Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    Er..that is exactly what the story is supposed to illustrate. The guy isn't a hero in the story. It's pretty clear he's an eejit and should have saved himself rather than drown!

    I'll repeat the punchline - do not expect magical solutions to your problems
    I beg to differ.

    Your story supports the view that God exists and will provide a magical solution but just using human methods (boats, helicopters etc).

    To me that is as dangerous and as insane as relying on outright magical solutions.

    Sometimes you get lucky, but mostly, you make your own solutions.

  16. #156
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    Re: One for Barry

    This is the problem with religious parables - there are as many interpretations as there are listeners!!

  17. #157
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    Re: One for Barry

    General response.

    There are arguments in favour of religion (I presume) but it doesn't work to take a criticism of religion, say 'Here's a very similar criticism that can be levelled at some other phenomenon, so you can't criticise religion on that basis.'

    Analogies have to contain more than superficial similarity. Supermarkets may encourage healthy eating, but they offer cholesterol and alcohol as well.

    Tesco doesn't insist that you will burn in hell if you don't patronise its shops; it doesn't rely on nutritional information written down 3,000 years ago by men with a socio-political agenda and no idea what they were writing about; it doesn't care if you buy some products at its shops and other products - a car, for example, or a mediterranean cruise - from somewhere else. And so on and so on.

    Finally, religions do not offer a smorgasbord of beliefs from which the believer is free to pick and choose. If you are - e.g. - CofE, you have to believe in the Trinity. If your beliefs are otherwise CofE but you believe that God was the creator and Jesus was his son and helper, then you might be an Adventist but you aren't CofE anymore.

    Christianity is so fragmented largely because almost every christian finds something to disagree with about what other christians believe. Islam will go the same way: there are already 3, possibly 4 major interpretations. If I knew as much about Islam as I do christianity I could probably already see where mini-islams are about to bud off from the mainstream.

    The contradictions in religious belief are, I conclude, intolerable. The faithful deal with them in a spectrum of ways ranging from not thinking about them CofE) to trying to kill everyone who won't shut up about them (US fundamentalists).

  18. #158
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    Re: One for Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    To me that is as dangerous and as insane as relying on outright magical solutions.
    Yeah, it would have been totally insane for the guy just to leave by human means when he knew the flood was coming. Madness!

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    Sometimes you get lucky, but mostly, you make your own solutions.
    If you make your own solutions by human means, it makes no difference to anyone but yourself whether you believe their is a God behind the scenes guiding you or not.

  19. #159
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    Re: One for Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    This is the problem with religious parables - there are as many interpretations as there are listeners!!
    This is the problem for religious leaders and preachers etc. - even if they give sensible advice they can't control how that will be interpreted eg a couple of numptys might decide not to phone a doctor when their child gets ill.

  20. #160
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    Re: One for Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    General response.

    There are arguments in favour of religion (I presume) but it doesn't work to take a criticism of religion, say 'Here's a very similar criticism that can be levelled at some other phenomenon, so you can't criticise religion on that basis.'
    I am not suggesting you cannot criticise religion. I am suggesting you cannot dismiss the whole of religion based the fact that it is not perfect anymore than you could dismiss any other group/organisation/institution for the same reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    The contradictions in religious belief are, I conclude, intolerable.
    Intolerable to you. Not intolerable to the billions of religious people around the world.

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