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Thread: A fine line between Man and Monster

  1. #21
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: A fine line between Man and Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Yep...its a small section, against all the thousands of murderous men.
    You've had a falling out havent you ?

    see here

    I Hate Men

  2. #22
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    Re: A fine line between Man and Monster

    DNA sampling everybody is a very good concept.

    Some practical difficulties to overcome. The cost is collecting samples for the whole or a majority of the population is likely to be prohibitive. Not everyone trusts the competency and efficiency of the central agencies. How many times have they interrogated suspects and let them go free to carry on their criminal activities until they are eventually caught many years and many victims later? Not everyone trusts the honesty of the central agencies, if they have a sample of your DNA they could if they wanted to plant the evidence. There are cases where they have abused their position in order to make life easier for themselves, another central database gives them another avenue for such abuse.

    I agree with you that it could be a powerful deterrent for criminals but this is a double edged sword. As soon as these criminals notice that the system is faulty or open to loopholes, they will be laughing their heads off and encouraged in thinking that they can get away with it. I am no psychologist but I suspect that many of these criminals enjoy escaping justice more than the crime itself.

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    Re: A fine line between Man and Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Feet View Post
    If men are to be assumed so potentially murderous that they should all be DNA screened, what are we to assume of the men protecting that information?
    That's easy, we'll have to create an "Amazonian" society where women hold all of the positions of authority and rule over those terrible men.

  4. #24
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: A fine line between Man and Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I've never understood the objection to ID cards and DNA records. If you've done nothing wrong, then why not have them?
    I think the exact phrase you're looking for is:
    "If you've done nothing wrong, you've nothing to hide"

    There are many answers to that classic justification of a police-state, along the lines of privacy, trust in government, individual freedoms and so on, but they're all boring.

    The answer I personally like best is:
    "So you won't mind if I make a video of you s***ing your boy / girlfriend then?"

    I mean, after all, you've got nothing to hide, right?

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    Re: A fine line between Man and Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    That's easy, we'll have to create an "Amazonian" society where women hold all of the positions of authority and rule over those terrible men.
    I already live in that society...it's called 'my house'...

  6. #26
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: A fine line between Man and Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    OK, let's examine that argument for a second:

    • Muslims have been responsible for all the terrorist deaths in the UK over the past 5 years. So let's DNA test them - in fact, hell, let's lock them up without trial for a month or two. Oh, hold on a second...
    • Young black men are responsible for most of the gun crime in some parts of London. So let's DNA test them.


    This would only make sense if you had a limited budget and a lot of water cannons

    Of course logically it makes sense , morally probably not

  7. #27
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    Re: A fine line between Man and Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    Well I'm all for the recording of DNA at birth starting immediately and for the same for anyone entering the country. That way sooner or later, everyone will be on record and it'll be nearly impossible to get away with crime.
    Science fiction - DNA is not a perfect criminal detection tool. All it does is help prove an individual's presence at a crime scene, or the presence of a beer can they drank from at a crime scene, or their presence at a crime scene 2 months before the actual crime occurred - you begin to see the limitations, I hope? Even in a situation where it provides strong evidence - most obviously, a semen sample in a rape case - it merely proves that sex happened, not issues like consent. I'm not saying it's useless, but it is far from invincible and that has to be balanced against civil liberties.

    There's a perennial effort by the police, etc. to try to suggest that the crime rate will collapse overnight if they had a DNA database. The concepts of the Flying Squad and a certain porcine nickname for the police come together in my mind.

  8. #28
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: A fine line between Man and Monster

    Once they have a full DNA database of all the men, and find out which particular gene turns men into "monsters", what do you think the government's next action should be?
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: A fine line between Man and Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    what do you think the government's next action should be?
    I dunno....do tell, oh rightest one.

  10. #30
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    Re: A fine line between Man and Monster

    I think that we should take into account that DNA information carry more than the ability to identify a person from Database?

    It carries a wealth of information on the person's genetic history and from that you can work out a hell of a lot about that person. Their predisposition to every type of disease for example, and their likely lifespan.

    This is one of the main reasons why all suggestions of a DNA database have met with great opposition. The potential for abuse by life insurance companies and employers or anybodyelse who can and feels like it is very high.

  11. #31
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    Re: A fine line between Man and Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I've never understood the objection to ID cards and DNA records. If you've done nothing wrong, then why not have them?
    Ah, that good old "if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear" mantra...

    Tell you what Gav, let's get ten forum members to provide you with their address. You can then post them your address and copies of your house keys, just so they can just let themselves in occasionally, open a few drawers, look under the bed and on top of the wardrobe. You know, just to make sure you really have nothing to hide.

  12. #32
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    Re: A fine line between Man and Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    I think that's the dumbest idea I've heard since ID cards. It's almost as dumb as the poll tax, in fact.
    Look you....if you're gonna sit on the fence, I'm not gonna let you join in any more.

  13. #33
    Not a spoon! Lou's Avatar
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    Re: A fine line between Man and Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    What other reasons are there then?
    Well, off-hand I could think of stuff like; not trusting our incompetent government, the fact that DNA science isn't fool-proof yet, fear of hackers getting their hands on data & passing it on, fear of record corruption/mix-ups, legislation changes to allow other parties to be able to access data (e.g. insurance companies, medical establishments, etc.), etc.

    Actually, I've just realised that a lot of other people have said the same thing already on this thread. Sorry - came back a bit late!

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    Re: A fine line between Man and Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    Ah, that good old "if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear" mantra...

    Tell you what Gav...blah, blah blah...
    I'm all for shining a torch up everyones arse, if it means less crime. I'll be the first to drop my trousers.

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    Re: A fine line between Man and Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    "So you won't mind if I make a video of you s***ing your boy / girlfriend then?"
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    Tell you what Gav, let's get ten forum members to provide you with their address. You can then post them your address and copies of your house keys, just so they can just let themselves in occasionally, open a few drawers, look under the bed and on top of the wardrobe. You know, just to make sure you really have nothing to hide.
    Wow, do they really do that if you agree to having your DNA on record?

    So there's a risk that my information MIGHT be lost or abused. If that means that there might be less chance of my loved ones being raped, tortured, mutilated and murdered is it worth the risk?

    Nah, fek 'em.

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    Re: A fine line between Man and Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    I'm all for shining a torch up everyone's arse. I'll be the first to drop my trousers.
    I think you might need a different forum for that, dear.

  17. #37
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    Re: A fine line between Man and Monster

    If we had a DNA database, I suspect that chequebook journalism would have ensured that a leak occured years ago about whether Prince Harry is in fact the son of the loverat. Is this the way we want things to go?

  18. #38
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: A fine line between Man and Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    Once they have a full DNA database of all the men, and find out which particular gene turns men into "monsters", what do you think the government's next action should be?
    Scotland i think has a tourist attraction which im told has a monster in it

    Id loch them all up there

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    Re: A fine line between Man and Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    I'm all for shining a torch up everyones arse, if it means less crime. I'll be the first to drop my trousers.


    I am trying not to take that too litterally!

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    Re: A fine line between Man and Monster

    Quote Originally Posted by Raul View Post
    If we had a DNA database, I suspect that chequebook journalism would have ensured that a leak occured years ago about whether Prince Harry is in fact the son of the loverat. Is this the way we want things to go?
    If that's that your major concern, database here we come.
    F.f.s. in the grand scheme, who gives a fat rat's?

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