Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23

Thread: Censorship

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    6,709
    Rep Power
    13

    Censorship

    My local MJ operator, Mo'jive, managed to acquire and only ever plays a censored version of the Christina Aguilera song, Candyman.

    "He's a one stop shop, makes my cherry pop" is replaced by "He's a one stop shop, makes my [silence] pop" and "He's a one stop shop, makes my panties drop" is replaced by "He's a one stop shop, makes my [silence] drop".

    Perhaps I should be grateful that they don't replace the offending words with an end-of-the-pier show whistle.

    As it is, I find it grossly offensive that adults dancing in a night-club style atmosphere are exposed to infantile thought-control in this fashion. Hell, even most kids over the age of 12 wouldn't find anything particularly remarkable in those lyrics. Some people seem to be stuck in the Victorian era.

    Which brings me to the forum. More and more usages seem to be considered 'verbum non grata', so that just now when I wanted to used the acronym eff-eff-ess it was censored into ***.

    I recognise that Ceroc certainly does not wish to restrict in any way the types of people who may become customers, and that includes questions of age as well. But is there evidence that any minors below the age of 16 use this site with any regularity? If they do, are they likely to be offended or have their characters blighted by the use of common-or-garden expletives? There are a couple of words that I am happy - because of the nearly universal offence that they provoke - to see bowdlerised. But my feeling is that the forum is edging into political correctness and not in a good way.

    What does everyone else think?

  2. #2
    The Dashing Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Midlands
    Posts
    3,556
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Censorship

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    "He's a one stop shop, makes my cherry pop" is replaced by "He's a one stop shop, makes my [silence] pop"
    Off topic, but I'm reminded of the "Julie Andrews Dirty Song Book" from one of the old Radio comedy series (I think it was "I'm Sorry I'll Read That Again").

    Such classics as:
    "I could have *****ed all night
    "I could have *****ed all night
    and still have begged for more
    I could have spread my *****
    and done a thousand things
    I've never done before"
    Love dance, will travel

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    3,166
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Censorship

    or

    two little boys has two little *****

  4. #4
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Belfast
    Posts
    8,925
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: Censorship

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    But is there evidence that any minors below the age of 16 use this site with any regularity? If they do, are they likely to be offended or have their characters blighted by the use of common-or-garden expletives?
    Minors probably use the variety of language you are referring to as much or even more than some adults. In fact the use of 'rude words' (with a snigger or as a way of showing off) is often a childish preoccupation that people grow out of as they mature.

    I know if the forum was full of expletives I wouldn't be reading it anymore.

    I can understand people bursting out with things in a crisis, accident or in rage. But why do you feel the need to use expletives as part of your written public communication with others on here?
    Last edited by Lynn; 24th-February-2008 at 03:47 PM. Reason: Spelling!

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Scottish Borders
    Posts
    1,191
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Censorship

    Can anyone post the full (uncensored) lyrics of Candyman?

    Now that I know that "cherry" is an American slang word, and that Candyman is a young army recruit with candy, I think Christina's song is in part a biographical reference to her first encounter with underage sex. But, I would like to see if my guessing is substantiated by the content of the whole song.

  6. #6
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Hastings
    Posts
    4,386
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Censorship

    I was going to start a thread on a smilar thing about what is acceptable to play.

    One local club had a complaint from someone about the line "would you like to go to bed with me" in that song called something like "straight to Number 1". Then again it is a naff song.

    In public is played quite abit at weekenders ( )

    Would we be able to go as far as "Smack That"? ( ) (Warning very explicit lyrics)

    Smack that is a brilliant song to dance to but most hip hop type songs have explicit lyrics in. Maybe they should be played in the last hour or so of freestyles with a warning.

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    6,709
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Censorship

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    Minors probably use the variety of language you are referring to as much or even more than some adults. In fact the use of 'rude words' (with a snigger or as a way of showing off) is often a childish preoccupation that people grow out of as they mature.

    I know if the forum was full of expletives I wouldn't be reading it anymore.

    I can understand people bursting out with things in a crisis, accident or in rage. But why do you feel the need to use expletives as part of your written public communication with others on here?
    Why not? I'm an adult and I should be able to choose to communicate as I choose. Eff-eff-ess is, in any event, a moderate use of expletives but the point is it would communicate, in this instance, exasperation more accurately than 'goodness gracious'.

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    6,709
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Censorship

    Quote Originally Posted by dep View Post
    Can anyone post the full (uncensored) lyrics of Candyman?

    Now that I know that "cherry" is an American slang word, and that Candyman is a young army recruit with candy, I think Christina's song is in part a biographical reference to her first encounter with underage sex. But, I would like to see if my guessing is substantiated by the content of the whole song.
    Tarzan and Jane were swingin' on a vine
    sippin' from a bottle of vodka double wine

    Sweet - sugar - candyman

    I met him out for dinner on a Friday night
    he really had me workin' up an appetite
    He had tattoos up and down his arm
    there's nothin more dangerous thatn a boy with charm

    Hes's a one stop shop
    Makes the panties drop
    He's a sweet-talkin', sugar-coated candyman

    He took me to the Spider Clu an Hollywood and Vine
    We drank champagne and we danc3ed all night
    We shook the paparazzi for a big surprise
    The gossip tonight will be tomorrow's healine

    Hes's a one stop shop
    Makes my cherry pop
    He's a sweet-talkin', sugar-coated candyman

    Well by now I'm getting all bothereed and hot
    When he kissed my mouth he really hit the spot
    He had lips like sugar cane
    Good things come for boys who wait

    He's a one-stop gotcha hot making all the panties drop
    sweet sugar candyman

    He's a one-stop got me hot amkin my uh pop
    sweet sugar candyman

    He's a one-stop get it while it's hot baby don't stop
    sweet sugar candyman

    He got those lips like sugar cane
    Good things come to boys who wait
    He's a one-stop shop with a real big uh

    He's a sweet-talkin', sugar-coated candyman

    Tarzan and Jane were swingin' on a vine
    sippin' from a bottle of vodka double wine
    Jane lost her grip and a-down she fell
    Squared herself away as she let out a yell

  9. #9
    Commercial Operator StokeBloke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Stoke-on-Trent
    Posts
    2,366
    Rep Power
    10

    Cool Re: Censorship

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    My local MJ operator, Mo'jive, managed to acquire and only ever plays a censored version of the Christina Aguilera song, Candyman.

    "He's a one stop shop, makes my cherry pop" is replaced by "He's a one stop shop, makes my [silence] pop" and "He's a one stop shop, makes my panties drop" is replaced by "He's a one stop shop, makes my [silence] drop".
    There are many who would argue that this song isn't censored enough. That three and a half minutes of silence is preferable to listening to Candyman.... I couldn't possibly comment on that! But I do understand your exasperation about the way some songs are censored. I hate it when music channels play censored versions of tracks well after the watershed

    When a song is censored I much prefer the method where they remove the word, spin the audio around and reinsert it. With some tracks silence can make it seem like it's Nelly Feat. Stan Boardman

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    6,709
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Censorship

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    There are many who would argue that this song isn't censored enough. That three and a half minutes of silence is preferable to listening to Candyman.... I couldn't possibly comment on that! But I do understand your exasperation about the way some songs are censored. I hate it when music channels play censored versions of tracks well after the watershed

    When a song is censored I much prefer the method where they remove the word, spin the audio around and reinsert it. With some tracks silence can make it seem like it's Nelly Feat. Stan Boardman
    Disliking a song is one thing. Piddling around with the lyrics for reasons of feeble minded prudery is another. The version I'm talking about, by the way, doesn't insert silence in the song but simply in the vocal track.

    If you don't like the song/book/film whatever, don't distribute it/broadcast it/play it. The worst thing you can do is insult the integrity of the artists and the intelligence of the audience by replacing eff-you-sea-kay-ing with 'freaking' in a film about gangbangers in LA, a bunch of people for whom the word freaking never passes their lips.

    If you as a TV station or your advertisers are too squeamish to broadcast the film as made, then just sodding well let somebody else broadcast it - at least the version people will see will be the version the writer/director intended. When it's post-synced, you just spend your time wondering what other alterations have been made to fit the prejudices of the small minded and the stupid.

    Coming next: nude paintings and sculptures to be tastefully censored by painting/carving discrete cloths over the rude bits.

    Oh, wait - the Victorians already did that.

  11. #11
    Commercial Operator StokeBloke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Stoke-on-Trent
    Posts
    2,366
    Rep Power
    10

    Cool Re: Censorship

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Disliking a song is one thing. Piddling around with the lyrics for reasons of feeble minded prudery is another. The version I'm talking about, by the way, doesn't insert silence in the song but simply in the vocal track.

    If you don't like the song/book/film whatever, don't distribute it/broadcast it/play it. The worst thing you can do is insult the integrity of the artists and the intelligence of the audience by replacing eff-you-sea-kay-ing with 'freaking' in a film about gangbangers in LA, a bunch of people for whom the word freaking never passes their lips.

    If you as a TV station or your advertisers are too squeamish to broadcast the film as made, then just sodding well let somebody else broadcast it - at least the version people will see will be the version the writer/director intended. When it's post-synced, you just spend your time wondering what other alterations have been made to fit the prejudices of the small minded and the stupid.

    Coming next: nude paintings and sculptures to be tastefully censored by painting/carving discrete cloths over the rude bits.

    Oh, wait - the Victorians already did that.
    The music industry isn't quite as black and white as this though. Where do you think the radio stations get the 'Radio Edit' from? From the record company who are trying to shift units. To pay the artist. To get their investment back from the money it cost to produce the album that the track has been taken from. I understand we live in a money driven world. I understand that there are people who don't want to hear swear words. Personally I am not fussed. It's only a word. But some would take offense. These people need to be able to make an informed decision about listening to music in my view. Rather than dumb everything down to their level of morality.

    If I was DJ would I play uncensored or radio edits of tracks? It would all depend on the circumstances. But do I think that grown ups would be offended by hearing the word 'panties' or 'cherry' at a dance event. No. I do not. In fact like you, being told I am not allowed to hear the word 'cherry' does offend me!

    I agree completely with your points about movies being 'word washed'. The director and producer have their names put to the film. They are credited for something that has since been altered ... with their permission? If they didn't want sweary marys in the movie they would have taken it out in the filming stage.

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    6,709
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Censorship

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    The music industry isn't quite as black and white as this though. Where do you think the radio stations get the 'Radio Edit' from? From the record company who are trying to shift units. To pay the artist. To get their investment back from the money it cost to produce the album that the track has been taken from. I understand we live in a money driven world. I understand that there are people who don't want to hear swear words. Personally I am not fussed. It's only a word. But some would take offense. These people need to be able to make an informed decision about listening to music in my view. Rather than dumb everything down to their level of morality.

    If I was DJ would I play uncensored or radio edits of tracks? It would all depend on the circumstances. But do I think that grown ups would be offended by hearing the word 'panties' or 'cherry' at a dance event. No. I do not. In fact like you, being told I am not allowed to hear the word 'cherry' does offend me!

    I agree completely with your points about movies being 'word washed'. The director and producer have their names put to the film. They are credited for something that has since been altered ... with their permission? If they didn't want sweary marys in the movie they would have taken it out in the filming stage.
    Absolutely; it's axiomatic that somebody must give permission for these things, and access to the master tapes, at the least. Otherwise the bowdlerised version would be a breach of copyright, and actionable (not to mention quite a lot more difficult to produce).

    I'm objecting to the small minded attitudes of the great unwashed (as I heard them described once) and the pompous literati, that provides the impetus in the first place.

  13. #13
    Registered User Beowulf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    The Beoverse
    Posts
    7,985
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Censorship

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    The worst thing you can do is insult the integrity of the artists and the intelligence of the audience by replacing eff-you-sea-kay-ing with 'freaking' in a film about gangbangers in LA, a bunch of people for whom the word freaking never passes their lips.
    The worst case of censorship I ever had the misfortune to witness was the TV edit of the original Robocop. The first few "missions" RC took on there was an armed robbery in a shop and when RC walks in the gun man angrily starts pumping his pump action shot gun into Robocopper with the nasty expletive "It's Not you! It's not you ! It's not You!"

    erm..

    I think it was !! of course the ORIGINAL version made more sense .. "eff-you-see-kay you! eff-you-see-kay you! eff-you-see-kay you!"

    There's more in that film and it's only the one movie that springs to mind. My view is, if a film has passed the censor then it should remain uncut. If that means putting an 18 cert film on after the 9pm watershed so be it.

  14. #14
    Commercial Operator StokeBloke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Stoke-on-Trent
    Posts
    2,366
    Rep Power
    10

    Cool Re: Censorship

    I once saw a version of Beverly Hills Cop which had all the f*cks edited out!?!? WHY?! What is an Eddie Murphy movie without some f*ckin' language. Half of the humour is the way Eddie gets sooo much expression into that small, beautifully formed, bundle of letters!

  15. #15
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Censorship

    Playing a censored version of a song does seem strange. And pointless.

    As for censorship on the forum:
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Why not? I'm an adult and I should be able to choose to communicate as I choose.
    Well yeah, but this ain't your blog, it's someone else's forum, which has rules, as a member you agree to abide by these rules.

    Admittedly the rules don't explicitly ( ) ban swearing, but the "Mi casa, su casa" section applies here. Swearing offends quite a few people, not just children, therefore it's censored.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Eff-eff-ess is, in any event, a moderate use of expletives but the point is it would communicate, in this instance, exasperation more accurately than 'goodness gracious'.
    I find a combination of "blimey", "good grief" and works pretty well for me.

    And good communication communicates better than expletives.

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    6,709
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Censorship

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Playing a censored version of a song does seem strange. And pointless.

    As for censorship on the forum:

    Well yeah, but this ain't your blog, it's someone else's forum, which has rules, as a member you agree to abide by these rules.
    Hmm.

    First, the query is about why and whether those rules do and should exist.

    Second, there are plenty of other and more offensive things that go on in these threads, and some people wonder why restraining action isn't more vigorous in those circumstances.

    Thirdly - and this is key - if swearing isn't prohibited by the rules, but nevertheless it is surreptitiously or informally or whimsically, and automatically, censored, then that is a situation for which there is no defence or excuse.

    If the operators of the forum want to stop people communicating as they choose to communicate, shouldn't they make that clear in the rules? Nothing more frustrating than using a word or a combination of letters which have previously passed without remark and find them replaced by a handful of asterisks.

    {Edit}Oh, and finally:

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ
    I find a combination of "blimey", "good grief" and works pretty well for me.

    And good communication communicates better than expletives.
    For the first, good for you. No-one is insisting you use language you personally don't wish to use.

    Secondly - that's a matter of opinion. What on earth do you imagine is the reason for the continued existence of expletives if not for the purpose of communication? Chaucer used the same words which are now forbidden (even if spelled differently - quei**, for example) 600 years ago.
    Last edited by Barry Shnikov; 25th-February-2008 at 10:49 AM.

  17. #17
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Censorship

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    First, the query is about why and whether those rules do and should exist.
    We have an auto-censor. How it works, I'm not sure - I refer you to someone who knows (Franck, maybe Ducasi?) or, well, cares. I believe auto-censors are fairly common in forums?

    Hmmm, this discussion should probably be in the "Technical questions" area...

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Second, there are plenty of other and more offensive things that go on in these threads, and some people wonder why restraining action isn't more vigorous in those circumstances.
    A/ It seems that swearing is usually quite offensive to a large number of people - therefore it's simpler to just ban it. It's like the aerials of forum posting
    B/ Once again... Moderation actions are mostly taken when a post is reported. We don't wander round policing posts all day long. If a post is not reported, then often we won't take action - King Log being better than King Stork. If a post offends you, report it.

    Blimey, how many times do we need to repeat that mantra?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Thirdly - and this is key - if swearing isn't prohibited by the rules, but nevertheless it is surreptitiously or informally or whimsically, and automatically, censored, then that is a situation for which there is no defence or excuse.
    I don't know how the auto-censor works. If you have a problem with it operationally (instead of conceptually), take it up with Franck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    If the operators of the forum want to stop people communicating as they choose to communicate, shouldn't they make that clear in the rules?
    The rules clearly state that we're not going to try to explicitly regulate each part of behaviour, although I'd expect "Be polite" covers it nicely. Use your common sense, and stop being such a bleedin' lawyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Secondly - that's a matter of opinion. What on earth do you imagine is the reason for the continued existence of expletives if not for the purpose of communication?
    "Letting off steam" is not the same as "effective communication".

  18. #18
    An Eclectic Toaster
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    2,042
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Censorship

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    My local MJ operator, Mo'jive, managed to acquire and only ever plays a censored version of the Christina Aguilera song, Candyman.

    "He's a one stop shop, makes my cherry pop" is replaced by "He's a one stop shop, makes my [silence] pop" and "He's a one stop shop, makes my panties drop" is replaced by "He's a one stop shop, makes my [silence] drop".

    Perhaps I should be grateful that they don't replace the offending words with an end-of-the-pier show whistle.
    I guess that by those criteria, real blues music should never be played at a jive venue. I mean most of them are filthy when you actually listen to the lyrics. "Fishin' Blues", "Keep on Churnin' (Till the Butter Come)", "Let me Squeeze Your Lemon", and of course anything by "Jelly Roll" Morton.

    Oh no wait, real blues music IS never played at jive venues. Aaaaaahhh....
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    As it is, I find it grossly offensive that adults dancing in a night-club style atmosphere are exposed to infantile thought-control in this fashion. Hell, even most kids over the age of 12 wouldn't find anything particularly remarkable in those lyrics. Some people seem to be stuck in the Victorian era.

    Which brings me to the forum. More and more usages seem to be considered 'verbum non grata', so that just now when I wanted to used the acronym eff-eff-ess it was censored into ***.
    F F S!*

    My experience of this form of lazy censorship elsewhere on the Internet, is that people quickly find ways to subvert or lampoon it, and it can end up looking ridiculous. Better to rely on passive censorship i.e. if something offends someone, rely on them to report it, then deal with it. And by "deal with it" I mean fairly heavy censures early on, just to get the message across to offenders.

    *Provided merely as a descriptive example.
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    But my feeling is that the forum is edging into political correctness and not in a good way.
    I tend to agree. There's one forum which I tend not to visit (even though the subject matter interests me) because the policy is too lax - to the extent that I prefer to keep the avatars switched off . But this forum is showing a tendency to be over-restrictive in this regard, which is almost as bad really.

  19. #19
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    10,015
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: Censorship

    Is it just hearsay that the old Ceroc London forum had "Hipsters" on its censor list?

    That's the kind of censorship you should be worried about. No-one is stopping you expressing yourself on pretty much any topic you care to think of, we just ask you to do it in a polite manner. What's the big fuss?
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

  20. #20
    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North London
    Posts
    9,918
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    17

    Re: Censorship

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    this forum is showing a tendency to be over-restrictive in this regard, which is almost as bad really.
    I'm not sure
    how the censoring of words works on here.

    Does it come as a package, that you either have 'on or off'. Maybe Franck can't personally choose the words, which get censored?

    As for other issues of 'moderating', 99% of what we edit, is edited because its been reported as causing offense and we've been 'asked' to edit it!

    On a personal note, I don't enjoy reading endless streams of swear words. I'm no saint and have been known to use the odd swear word myself but I don't think it ever transfers well to the written word!
    MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
    "If you're going to do something tonight, that you know you'll be sorry for in the morning, plan a lie in." Lorraine

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Censorship on the Forum
    By El Salsero Gringo in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 4th-November-2005, 04:12 PM
  2. Censorship
    By stewart38 in forum Chit Chat
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 14th-October-2004, 09:41 AM
  3. Dance Politics & Censorship
    By RobC in forum Chit Chat
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 16th-June-2004, 04:49 PM
  4. Censorship
    By Dave Hancock in forum Chit Chat
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 4th-December-2003, 06:09 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •