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Thread: What to critique?

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    What to critique?

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Monkey View Post
    Not unless you're in a workshop environment. If you get a group of advanced dancers together for practice, yeah, of course there's going to be feedback from the other dancers. If you only ever see them on the social dance floor (which is mostly the case), that's not the time or place for in-depth critique of each others dance abilities.
    So, we set up a "workshop" slot {perhaps at the next Blaze?} where the idea is to dance with each other and give constructive feedback.

    What should we be looking for in someone else's dancing? What cattegories? Should it be a 1-5 rating? Should we all just dance a set "basic" routine? Or a custom one designed to test various aspects of lead/follow? Or just a freestyle?

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    Cheeky by nature Little Monkey's Avatar
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    Re: What to critique?

    I think just freestyle dancing is a good way of judging someone's dance abilities, but it all depends what the aim/contents of the workshop is. And it depends on who's attending the class, too. I know that if someone observes me dancing with a beginner/intermediate to music I don't like, I will look very different from when I dance with one of my favourite advanced dancers to music I love.

    So, in your hypothetical critique workshop - would it be people of all abilities, or divided into separate levels of dance ability?

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    Re: What to critique?

    I suppose if you want detailed critique, then splitting up based on dance ability would be better. It would be difficult for someone like me to critique someone advanced, for example. And I agree with the music and partner thing. We all dance better to stuff we enjoy.

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    Re: What to critique?

    1 hr workshop plus 30 mins before next workshop???

    Each person brings one of their top tunes, approx 3 mins. That's 20-30 tunes. Bound to be something in there U like...

    Freestyle with someone who's views U'd respect... take it from there...

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    Cheeky by nature Little Monkey's Avatar
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    Re: What to critique?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    1 hr workshop plus 30 mins before next workshop???

    Each person brings one of their top tunes, approx 3 mins. That's 20-30 tunes. Bound to be something in there U like...

    Freestyle with someone who's views U'd respect... take it from there...
    All well and good, but it would have to be in a group of dancers of approximately the same level.

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    Re: What to critique?

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Monkey View Post
    All well and good, but it would have to be in a group of dancers of approximately the same level.
    Advertise it as advanced and not for the weak of heart... should sort the goats from the sheep...

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    Re: What to critique?

    Unfortunately, I don't think it's very easy to critique people at around the same level. It's a teacher's skill to be able to see what someone is doing wrong, and be able to help them fix it.

    While I can tell a beginner lots of things they are doing wrong, I may not always be able to fix it. I wouldn't know where to start with someone at all "advanced".
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: What to critique?

    I would be interested in a workshop that gave me some feedback about what it's like to dance with me, what I do well and what I need to do better or improve on. I'm not that interested in learning new moves which I suspect makes me as a dancer awkward to cater for in terms of workshop. I'm interested in knowing more about dancing technically, foot placement, position, interpretation of music and response to my partner etc. But I'd need this within a supportive framework. I have quite a well developed sense of my own inadequacies. It would be nice to have some positive feedback from a teacher to balance the areas for further development.

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    Re: What to critique?

    would it be... "I'm going to teach you X and Y" or "when we were dancing, I liked A but found B a challenge. Let's look at those..."

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    Re: What to critique?

    I was thinking along the lines of a "feedback" workshop rather than one that would try to correct stuff - basically get an idea of where your own strengths and weaknesses lie so that you could aproach a teacher and say "please teach me how to improve this".

    I'm sure that there could be a lot of tips and advice given, but I don't thik that this would be the aim.

    Perhaps several people critique the one couple? take it in turns?... but this relies on fixed couples and would take a long time. (and be more of a competition thingie where outside influence held more bias than lead/follow)

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    Cheeky by nature Little Monkey's Avatar
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    Re: What to critique?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    Advertise it as advanced and not for the weak of heart... should sort the goats from the sheep...
    Unfortunately all my past experience of attending so-called 'advanced' workshops proves this wrong. There's always beginners/intermediates who'll attend any workshop, no matter what it's advertised as.

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    Re: What to critique?

    Quote Originally Posted by dance cat View Post
    I would be interested in a workshop that gave me some feedback about what it's like to dance with me, what I do well and what I need to do better or improve on. {snip}It would be nice to have some positive feedback from a teacher to balance the areas for further development.
    Yeah, I'd like some constructive feedback on my dancing too, both the good and the bad. It's no good if you're only told the things that you do right, I need someone to pick on me, and show me what I do wrong, too. Then I need someone to really work with me to make those improvements.... I wish I had a regular dance partner.

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    Re: What to critique?

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Monkey View Post
    Yeah, I'd like some constructive feedback on my dancing too, both the good and the bad.
    LM, its dead simple ... you don't bounce enough!

    Quote Originally Posted by dance cat View Post
    I would be interested in a workshop that gave me some feedback about what it's like to dance with me, what I do well and what I need to do better or improve on.
    Aye ... I think that would help most people. I'm not sure how to fit it into a formalised workshop day ... other than a series of 'mini-privates'. Maybe a more accessible way of doing it would be for teachers to set aside an hour (half-hour) each night. One track to dance with a student, then a few minutes or so to give focused feedback on a couple of points. Most people I would assume could only address a couple of points at any one time. If it took, say, 10 minutes a person, thats 6 happy campers each week. Of course then there are the questions about does the teacher get paid, are they able to coach, who gets the ten minute slots etc but thats just mere detail

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    Re: What to critique?

    I think all this sounds really interesting too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Monkey View Post
    Yeah, I'd like some constructive feedback on my dancing too, both the good and the bad. It's no good if you're only told the things that you do right, I need someone to pick on me, and show me what I do wrong, too. Then I need someone to really work with me to make those improvements.... I wish I had a regular dance partner.


    I'd really like to work on improving but it's very difficult to get the opportunity. It gets frustrating when sometimes I'm not getting much practice and I feel like I'm going backwards.

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    Re: What to critique?

    If you want general critique, then take a video of yourself and post it on a thread - I think Lee made such a suggestion a while back. I think most people would be pretty constructive in their criticisms...

    Videos don't lie, and I've found that's been very useful over the past few months of AT practice with my lovely partner (who also is a dab hand with the video-techie thing). I can review what I did wrong then and what I'm doing wrong now, and it gives me something - well, lots of things - to work on.

    Of course, any fool could see what I'm doing wrong with AT, but critiqueing becomes more difficult at higher levels.

    Still, it might be worth a try.

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    Re: What to critique?

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    It's a teacher's skill to be able to see what someone is doing wrong, and be able to help them fix it.
    peer/peer assessment has become very common and effective. They even manage to describe the fix needed, and often in the language that they need.
    It helps both sides, particularly when you see it done wrongly.
    You become aware and have to express it. Often it's that expression that clears your own thoughts.
    It happens to me, having to explain a problem to another non-expert in my field and the translation into lay language clears the mire and I become aware of the solution as I explain the situation.

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    Cheeky by nature Little Monkey's Avatar
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    Re: What to critique?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    LM, its dead simple ... you don't bounce enough!
    Damn. That's going to be a tough one to improve on!

    Aye ... I think that would help most people. I'm not sure how to fit it into a formalised workshop day ... other than a series of 'mini-privates'.
    What DavidB suggested on the other thread sounded sensible, though: get the all the people in the workshop to give feedback to each other. If it is a small group, the teacher should also have the opportunity to give some individual feedback, esp if it's actually set aside some time for this towards the end of the class.

    Oh, and videoing yourself is a great way of picking up on things you do wrong. Not sure if I'd post it on the forum, though. I'd be afraid of getting completely slaughtered....
    Last edited by Little Monkey; 22nd-February-2008 at 09:16 PM.

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    Re: What to critique?

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Monkey View Post
    Yeah, I'd like some constructive feedback on my dancing too, both the good and the bad. It's no good if you're only told the things that you do right, I need someone to pick on me, and show me what I do wrong, too. Then I need someone to really work with me to make those improvements.... I wish I had a regular dance partner.
    One of the good things came out of Swish - which I didn't mention (shame on me) was Ruby giving me a very good points on my leading (cringe - yes, I was brave (or stupid?!) enough to ask to lead her... cringe again...). She was really good about the whole thing, one of the best "constructive" criticism I've had. And she pinpointed the reason why I might be doing it - overreaching compensating for being small. So, I would suggest talk to the teacher - leader, lead them, follower - follow them, and then ask for feedback. Peers - I will listen to my friends and (sort-of)regular partner, who just happens to be much taller than me!, but from someone I don't know - probably won't, as I would not trust their opinion above my own (how conceited is that! but here you go!)

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