Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 48

Thread: Being a role model

  1. #1
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Being a role model

    Moved from the Amy Winehouse thread - DJ

    Quote Originally Posted by jive-vee View Post
    But then she's never AFAIK set out to BE a role model. She has a talent for singing and songwriting and people want to hear her music.
    No-one "sets out" to be a role-model; but some people are, as a result of their achievements / fame / whatever.

    Presumably, we can all agree that good role models are better than bad ones?
    Last edited by David Bailey; 21st-February-2008 at 05:46 PM.

  2. #2
    Registered User jive-vee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Bath
    Posts
    731
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: "Severe exhaustion"

    Of course a good role model is better than a bad one.

    I would say though that parents, teachers and sports men and women who set out to represent their country are examples of people who set out to be role models. Possibly even children's tv presenters and bands/singers who specifically target young children/teens (those at the age who typically idolise singers etc) could be deemed as people who set out to be/could become regarded as role models.

    I would not put Amy Winehouse into that bracket. Britney Spears, however, did seem to be marketed as and seemed to be trying to be a role model (at least at the beginning of her career). Amy just seems to be a singer that, though talented, is clearly troubled.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    6,709
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: "Severe exhaustion"

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    No-one "sets out" to be a role-model; but some people are, as a result of their achievements / fame / whatever.

    Presumably, we can all agree that good role models are better than bad ones?
    Er - isn't that a bit circular? How could you define a 'good role model' except by saying that such persons are better role models than others?

    Replace the phrase, viz. "...agree that good wines are better than bad ones?"


  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    6,709
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: "Severe exhaustion"

    Quote Originally Posted by jive-vee View Post
    Of course a good role model is better than a bad one.

    I would say though that parents, teachers and sports men and women who set out to represent their country are examples of people who set out to be role models. Possibly even children's tv presenters and bands/singers who specifically target young children/teens (those at the age who typically idolise singers etc) could be deemed as people who set out to be/could become regarded as role models.

    I would not put Amy Winehouse into that bracket. Britney Spears, however, did seem to be marketed as and seemed to be trying to be a role model (at least at the beginning of her career). Amy just seems to be a singer that, though talented, is clearly troubled.
    I disagree. I think very few people - possibly nobody at all - sets out to be a good role model. Being a good role model is a side-effect of behaving decently and being in the public eye. Innit?

    Sportspersons set out to win their sports, pop stars set out to be adulated and rich - no-one says 'I want to be an actor because I want to be a role model.' Do they?

  5. #5
    Registered User jive-vee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Bath
    Posts
    731
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: "Severe exhaustion"

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    no-one says 'I want to be an actor because I want to be a role model.' Do they?
    True, but then I didn't say they did

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Scottish Borders
    Posts
    1,191
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: "Severe exhaustion"

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    I disagree. I think very few people - possibly nobody at all - sets out to be a good role model. Being a good role model is a side-effect of behaving decently and being in the public eye. Innit?

    Sportspersons set out to win their sports, pop stars set out to be adulated and rich - no-one says 'I want to be an actor because I want to be a role model.' Do they?
    Barry,
    "nobody" is inappropriate.
    Teachers set out to be role models for their pupils, although a few probably fail.
    I am in a secure unit (not as an inmate) and that is the subliminal message we are trying to give ALL the time to our troubled pupils.

  7. #7
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: "Severe exhaustion"

    Quote Originally Posted by jive-vee View Post
    Of course a good role model is better than a bad one.

    I would say though that parents, teachers and sports men and women who set out to represent their country are examples of people who set out to be role models.
    Sorry, I disagree.

    Occasionally, some people who've achieved fame / success, or who've been thrust into the limelight already, will make efforts to consciously mould themselves as positive role models, by charity and / or goodwill work. For example, victims of crime or their relatives - such as Sally Potts.

    But I can't honestly think of anyone who sets out to be a role model - that only happens when you're already famous for something, surely?

    Quote Originally Posted by jive-vee View Post
    Possibly even children's tv presenters and bands/singers who specifically target young children/teens (those at the age who typically idolise singers etc)
    Which is, basically, almost all pop performers over the past 50 years...

    Quote Originally Posted by jive-vee View Post
    I would not put Amy Winehouse into that bracket. Britney Spears, however, did seem to be marketed as and seemed to be trying to be a role model (at least at the beginning of her career). Amy just seems to be a singer that, though talented, is clearly troubled.
    The point is, famous people, almost by definition, are role models. That's pretty much a prerequisite.

    And considering how much effort most of these people make into getting famous, it's a bit rich if they then complain "I'm not responsible for being a role model, because I never set out to be one". No-one does.

  8. #8
    Registered User jive-vee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Bath
    Posts
    731
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: "Severe exhaustion"

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Sorry, I disagree.

    Occasionally, some people who've achieved fame / success, or who've been thrust into the limelight already, will make efforts to consciously mould themselves as positive role models, by charity and / or goodwill work. For example, victims of crime or their relatives - such as Sally Potts.

    But I can't honestly think of anyone who sets out to be a role model - that only happens when you're already famous for something, surely?

    The point is, famous people, almost by definition, are role models. That's pretty much a prerequisite.

    And considering how much effort most of these people make into getting famous, it's a bit rich if they then complain "I'm not responsible for being a role model, because I never set out to be one". No-one does.
    You seem to be equating fame and fortune with being a role model. I'd agree more with the definition in Wikipedia:

    The term has passed into general use to mean any "person who serves as an example of a positive behavior".

    That is why I used parents, teachers and to an extent national sportsmen/women. That is also why I suggested Britney Spears as she was initially marketed as a good, Christian, girl with values.

    I do not agree that anyone who is in the public eye IS a role model in relation to my understanding of the term.

  9. #9
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: "Severe exhaustion"

    Quote Originally Posted by jive-vee View Post
    You seem to be equating fame and fortune with being a role model.
    In this context - i.e. being a general role model for the general public - then yes. You can't be a general role model without being generally known.

    But I accept your point about being personal role models, yes. Teachers and parents are the obvious examples.

    Quote Originally Posted by jive-vee View Post
    That is why I used parents, teachers and to an extent national sportsmen/women. That is also why I suggested Britney Spears as she was initially marketed as a good, Christian, girl with values.
    Indeed - and that's probably what made her "fall from grace" more newsworthy. It's like all those "family values" Tory MPs who then turned out to be complete pervs doing weird things with oranges; there's extra mileage in hypocrisy.

    Quote Originally Posted by jive-vee View Post
    I do not agree that anyone who is in the public eye IS a role model in relation to my understanding of the term.
    Can you think of anyone in the public eye who's not a role model to anyone? Because I can't. Admittedly, some are more important as role models than others. But pop singers, who are marketed at young people, are typically more influential role models than - for example - famous scientists or athlete. Which is unfortunate, but that's the way it is.

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    6,709
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: "Severe exhaustion"

    Quote Originally Posted by dep View Post
    Barry,
    "nobody" is inappropriate.
    Teachers set out to be role models for their pupils, although a few probably fail.
    I am in a secure unit (not as an inmate) and that is the subliminal message we are trying to give ALL the time to our troubled pupils.
    Well, I think you moved the goalposts there, since obviously a large number of mums and dads set out to be good role models. I don't think it's wrong to say we were talking about public role models - names bandied were Amy Winehouse, Britney Spears...

    In that context , role model is a bit of a slippery concept. Is David Suchet a role model? He does his job, goes home to his family. What's to model? Is Natasha Kaplinsky a role model? Isn't it only the excessively dreadful or the excessively admirable who ever wander into 'role model' territory?

  11. #11
    Registered User jive-vee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Bath
    Posts
    731
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: "Severe exhaustion"

    I can't really think of anyone in the public eye who's not a role model to anyone. The problem is that it's very subjective so many people could be held up as being examples of good, or indeed bad, role models.

    My point, and I can't quite remember why I even started to make it now (haha slow day at work I guess) was that it's unfair to condemn her as being a bad role model when she never set out to be a good one in the first place. It is to my mind slightly different to a parent/teacher/politician trying to set a good example and then falling from grace. It is slightly different to a sportsman representing his/her country and then bringing him/herself or the country into disrepute. It is different to a children's tv presenter modelling good clean living and then dabbling in drugs (whilst still presenting children's tv). It is different to a pop star or pop group claiming to be squeaky clean and setting a good example to the very young fan base they are trying to acquire and then falling from grace.

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Scottish Borders
    Posts
    1,191
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: "Severe exhaustion"

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    ......... obviously a large number of mums and dads set out to be good role models.
    unfortunately, a few parents are incapable of being adequate role models for their offspring. Yes, it's that bad for some of our youngsters.

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Scottish Borders
    Posts
    1,191
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: "Severe exhaustion"

    Quote Originally Posted by jive-vee View Post
    I can't really think of anyone in the public eye who's not a role model to anyone. .................it's unfair to condemn her as being a bad role model when she never set out to be a good one in the first place.
    They rarely set out to be role models, but have it thrust upon, as they become famous.
    But once one has been elevated to prominence then it should become their responsibility to do the right thing. Start to live the role model and behave appropriately and don't let the temptations that money/fame can procure to allow that fall from grace.
    The press has a responsibility here as well. If they did not publicise the misdemeanors then our kids would be substantially unaware of the excesses they get up to.
    The responsibilities stretch far further than just parenting.
    If the famous can't live the right life then at least keep it very private.

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Near Montrose
    Posts
    221
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Being a role model

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Moved from the Amy Winehouse thread - DJ


    No-one "sets out" to be a role-model; but some people are, as a result of their achievements / fame / whatever.

    Presumably, we can all agree that good role models are better than bad ones?
    Completely agree.

    It's the continual flaunting of the law that bugs me and the apparent inability or unwillingness of the law to take them to task. I'd like the police and legal system to set a good example.

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    6,709
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: "Severe exhaustion"

    Quote Originally Posted by jive-vee View Post
    My point, and I can't quite remember why I even started to make it now (haha slow day at work I guess) was that it's unfair to condemn her as being a bad role model when she never set out to be a good one in the first place.
    I absolootly agree with that sentiment.

    Anyone who expects media celebrities to be role models (often journalists, of a particular kind who couldn't be a role model for a LA gangbanger) is de-lew-ded. Most of them are complete flakes. You only have to look at X factor auditions to get the flavour.

    Kate Moss - Lindsay Lohan - Naomi Campbell - Russell Crowe - Gazza.

    Compare, as was discussed here recently, Jeremy Beadle, who did good works and got on with it quietly.

  16. #16
    Registered User jive-vee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Bath
    Posts
    731
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: "Severe exhaustion"

    Quote Originally Posted by dep View Post
    They rarely set out to be role models, but have it thrust upon, as they become famous.
    But once one has been elevated to prominence then it should become their responsibility to do the right thing. Start to live the role model and behave appropriately and don't let the temptations that money/fame can procure to allow that fall from grace.
    The press has a responsibility here as well. If they did not publicise the misdemeanors then our kids would be substantially unaware of the excesses they get up to.
    The responsibilities stretch far further than just parenting.
    If the famous can't live the right life then at least keep it very private.
    I agree that the press has a lot to answer for but I'm sorry I completely disagree that people become role models as they become famous.

    I love music, I am a fan of many bands - but I don't see them as role models in the slightest and personally if they are writing songs, playing gigs and due to people liking them they become famous then I don't agree that that automatically makes them a role model.

    As for famous people having to live the right life - what tosh!! People are intrigued by celebrity so some people want to know about every aspect of their lives - just because people are interested in it doesn't mean that have to be virtuous!! If you are a politician preaching about family values fair enough but if you make music that some people enjoy I don't agree that you have anything at all to live up to with regard to being a good role model.
    Last edited by jive-vee; 21st-February-2008 at 06:32 PM.

  17. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Scottish Borders
    Posts
    1,191
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: "Severe exhaustion"

    Quote Originally Posted by jive-vee View Post
    ......... they become famous then I don't agree that that automatically makes them a role model.
    but our youth look up to the pop stars/models/footballers etc. and try to emulate them and their actions.
    That sounds like role model to me, whether desired or thrust upon them.

  18. #18
    B.O.G.O.F. fletch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    penkridge
    Posts
    9,298
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: Being a role model

    Quote Originally Posted by jive-vee View Post
    Of course a good role model is better than a bad one.
    .

    I think we might all have differnt idea's about who is and isn't a good rolw modle, mine might not be yours.



  19. #19
    Registered User jive-vee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Bath
    Posts
    731
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: "Severe exhaustion"

    Quote Originally Posted by dep View Post
    but our youth look up to the pop stars/models/footballers etc. and try to emulate them and their actions.
    That sounds like role model to me, whether desired or thrust upon them.
    And that may well be a problem with society today - too much value is placed by some on celebrity. But just because some today think being famous/rich and in the public eye is something to aspire to does not automatically mean that someone has to live up to anything. In an earlier post I have stated those in the public eye that I think do have responsibility as a role model, I do not agree with the sweeping generalisation of you're famous so now you have to live up to being a role model.

  20. #20
    Registered User jive-vee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Bath
    Posts
    731
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Being a role model

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    I think we might all have differnt idea's about who is and isn't a good rolw modle, mine might not be yours.


    Exactly!!!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Harry: role model for the 21st century
    By JiveLad in forum Chit Chat
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 1st-August-2010, 02:02 PM
  2. Hamilton - a role model for all?
    By Gus in forum Chit Chat
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 23rd-October-2007, 01:27 PM
  3. The role of modern judges
    By Barry Shnikov in forum Chit Chat
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 6th-March-2007, 11:25 PM
  4. Extending the 'Ceroc' model
    By Gus in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: 10th-January-2005, 02:32 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •