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Thread: Fat Chance

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    Fat Chance

    We all know that saturated fat will clog up your arteries and cause heart disease, don't we?
    Why do we know this? For decades, the government and "so-called" health experts have been telling us, so it must be right, right?
    WRONG!

    Origins
    In 1953 the physiologist, Dr. Ancel Keys did an international study in America, Canada, Australia, England, Italy and Japan. He found that the Americans ate the most fat and did the most dying and the Japanese ate the least fat and died a lot less. From there he published his "diet-heart hypothesis". Then he did interviews and chat shows all over the world and made a tidy sum out of it.

    Proof
    However, it was just a hypothesis and despite 40 years of scientific study since, no-one has managed to prove his hypothesis. In fact, the largest investigation of all was a £358 million study of 20,000 American women which showed that cutting back dietary fat had no impact on reducing stroke and heart-disease risks.

    Conclusion
    If you live a healthy lifestyle, aren't overweight, don't smoke and you take regular exercise, then the composition of your diet may matter much less than previously supposed.
    No-one is saying that saturated fats are good for you, just that they might not actually be bad for you.

    References
    There's a lot more information about this in the full article in the March Men's Health magazine.

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    Re: Fat Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    There's a lot more information about this in the full article in the March Men's Health magazine.
    Gav I think this just proves that you need to get better reading material

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    Re: Fat Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    Gav I think this just proves that you need to get better reading material
    Of course, but the article was just what prompted me to look into it and find that it was quite correct. Keys' research and hypothesis were deeply flawed and to me, it looks like his work was at least partly motivated by the search for fame and fortune. The only research results I can find with what appears to be genuine methods and results all appear to suggest that Keys was wrong.

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    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: Fat Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    Proof
    However, it was just a hypothesis and despite 40 years of scientific study since, no-one has managed to prove his hypothesis. In fact, the largest investigation of all was a £358 million study of 20,000 American women which showed that cutting back dietary fat had no impact on reducing stroke and heart-disease risks.
    This study of 80,000 women showed that replacing saturated fat with unsaturated fats is more effective in preventing coronary heart disease in women than reducing overall fat intake.

    The implication then is that saturated fats are bad for you.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: Fat Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    Of course, but the article was just what prompted me to look into it and find that it was quite correct. Keys' research and hypothesis were deeply flawed and to me, it looks like his work was at least partly motivated by the search for fame and fortune. The only research results I can find with what appears to be genuine methods and results all appear to suggest that Keys was wrong.

    There's lots of research that positively associate type of fat intake in your diet and coronary diseases -


    Sorry don't have the time to search for links this afternoon !

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    Re: Fat Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    If you live a healthy lifestyle, aren't overweight, don't smoke and you take regular exercise, then the composition of your diet may matter much less than previously supposed.
    Without disputing the veracity of the rest of your post, it's too big a jump from saying that fat may not be as bad for you as we've been led to believe, to saying 'the composition of your diet may matter much less than previously supposed'. Personally, I believe that it's been made very clear that our diet has a huge effect on our health.

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    Re: Fat Chance

    Mens Health magazine announces bacon sarnies and burgers are OK to eat!

    Next month: beans don't cause farting and beer sobers you up!!


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    Re: Fat Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    This study of 80,000 women showed that replacing saturated fat with unsaturated fats is more effective in preventing coronary heart disease in women than reducing overall fat intake.

    The implication then is that saturated fats are bad for you.
    That's just a summary and a summary can be used to make any point you care to make. Where's the research methodology that tells you whether their research was actually worth anything?

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    Re: Fat Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    There's lots of research that positively associate type of fat intake in your diet and coronary diseases -


    Sorry don't have the time to search for links this afternoon !
    Then come back when you have .

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat264 View Post
    Without disputing the veracity of the rest of your post, it's too big a jump from saying that fat may not be as bad for you as we've been led to believe, to saying 'the composition of your diet may matter much less than previously supposed'. Personally, I believe that it's been made very clear that our diet has a huge effect on our health.
    Good point, my second quote/observation was far too wide-ranging and missing it's context.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Mens Health magazine announces bacon sarnies and burgers are OK to eat!

    Next month: beans don't cause farting and beer sobers you up!!

    If you can't be bothered reading the rest of the thread, never mind looking into the subject, why not try to kill it with pointless, flippant remarks? Oh yes, you just did. :WATT:

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    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Fat Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post

    If you can't be bothered reading the rest of the thread, never mind looking into the subject, why not try to kill it with pointless, flippant remarks? Oh yes, you just did. :WATT:



    There is a link

    Questions For Jimmy The Bartender® - Men's Health

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    Re: Fat Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    If you can't be bothered reading the rest of the thread, never mind looking into the subject, why not try to kill it with pointless, flippant remarks? Oh yes, you just did. :WATT:
    Good grief, lighten up dude!

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    Re: Fat Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    That's just a summary and a summary can be used to make any point you care to make. Where's the research methodology that tells you whether their research was actually worth anything?
    Here's the full article.

    I'm personally more inclined to believe research articles from peer-reviewed medical journals, than "Men's Health" magazine.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: Fat Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    Here's the full article.

    I'm personally more inclined to believe research articles from peer-reviewed medical journals, than "Men's Health" magazine.
    Well, that's just danged - unreasonable of you. I bet lots of peers read Mens Health magazine. Like those two blokes employed by their MP dad...

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    Re: Fat Chance

    Gav and his article are quite correct. It's been a while since I saw that study, but I think Dr. Keys collected data from 21 countries. Only the 6 noted above demonstrated the correlation he was looking for, and so those were the only ones published.

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    Re: Fat Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    I'm personally more inclined to believe research articles from peer-reviewed medical journals, than "Men's Health" magazine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Well, that's just danged - unreasonable of you. I bet lots of peers read Mens Health magazine. Like those two blokes employed by their MP dad...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ephraim View Post
    Gav and his article are quite correct. It's been a while since I saw that study, but I think Dr. Keys collected data from 21 countries. Only the 6 noted above demonstrated the correlation he was looking for, and so those were the only ones published.
    Exactly, thank you. The point is that a magazine alerted me to a situation and I looked into it and reported back here. How is it relevant which magazine it came from?

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    Re: Fat Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    Exactly, thank you. The point is that a magazine alerted me to a situation and I looked into it and reported back here. How is it relevant which magazine it came from?
    Its called being a snob

    From a Daily Mail reader and proud of it

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    Cool Re: Fat Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    From a Daily Mail reader and proud of it
    Stewart, your verbal efficiency doesn't belittle the veracity of your point

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    Re: Fat Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    The point is that a magazine alerted me to a situation and I looked into it and reported back here. How is it relevant which magazine it came from?
    The magazine isn't important – I'm more likely to believe a research paper in a peer reviewed journal than any magazine, or indeed any individual – unless they can actually show me a peer-reviewed, similarly detailed study which disagrees with the one that I found.

    Conclusions Our findings suggest that replacing saturated and trans unsaturated fats with unhydrogenated monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats is more effective in preventing coronary heart disease in women than reducing overall fat intake.
    It's worth making it's conclusions clear again – it agreed with your "proof" that cutting down fat intake will not reduce your chances of heart disease, etc. But it found that replacing saturated fat for what we understand to be "healthier" unsaturated fats will do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav
    Conclusion
    If you live a healthy lifestyle, aren't overweight, don't smoke and you take regular exercise, then the composition of your diet may matter much less than previously supposed.
    No-one is saying that saturated fats are good for you, just that they might not actually be bad for you.
    I've seen no proof at all for these conclusions.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: Fat Chance

    In the past (and possibly still) the poor ate a lot of grease because it keeps your energy levels up and keeps you warm in unheated homes.

    Now the government run NHS is attacking the poor by telling them that their diet is unhealthy.

    If you are on a strict budget and have mouths to feed, are you going to buy a punnet of strawberries for £2.99 or a jumbo size bag of frozen chips for the same price?

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    Re: Fat Chance

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    are you going to buy a punnet of strawberries for £2.99 or a jumbo size bag of frozen chips for the same price?
    no, some real potatoes and boil them.

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