What is Sleaze?

[pmjd]

Sleaze is any activity with a sexual conotation from someone that you don´t want to have sexual conotations with.

Does anyone else have a complete crisis of confidence when these threads come out??

Or, is ot just me...

Do I dance too close? Have I caused offence?? Have I given wrong signals?!? etc, etc.. especially after a series of silly o'clock dances at Southport.

Oh, it's a mindfield...

Nope your not the only one

[Lory]

Thinking about this, it also depends o the music.. for example, if I was dancing to 'Breath me' by horse, I'd expect a bit of passion, to express the music but if I was dancing to Kylie's, 'spinning around' I'd think it was a bit weird to be held in a close hold

[killingtime]

Do I dance too close? Have I caused offence?? Have I given wrong signals?!? etc, etc.. especially after a series of silly o'clock dances at Southport.

I completely agree about the worry (I was going to post earlier but I scrapped it). I mean sometimes my partner closes the space a bit more and I wrap my right arm more across her back. I worry that if she did become concerned about the distance then I've somewhat trapped her closer.

If I'm doing something like a slow comb I'm never block her exit with my left hand (I put it to her waist, not lower back) but in blues I will wrap her in more and sometimes I worry that I am not giving enough personal space and making someone uncomfortable.

[ducasi]

The thing that annoys me is if you try to subtley pull out/away from the moves/person you don't feel so comfortable with and they see it as either a challenge or you being a tease.

I've had the opposite – girls who lead themselves in to close holds.

Bothered me a bit when I was with someone, but now I'm single, just so long as she's cute – I don't mind.

(Before anybody complains of typical male shallowness and sexism, this is not different from what many of the women on this thread are saying about guys.)

[CJ]

I've had the opposite – girls who lead themselves in to close holds.

Bothered me a bit when I was with someone, but now I'm single, just so long as she's cute – I don't mind.

(Before anybody complains of typical male shallowness and sexism, this is not different from what many of the women on this thread are saying about guys.)

That doesn't make it right!! After all, we're better then them!!!

Bizarrely, I felt MUCH safer and more comfortable with UCP, even VERY UCP, when I was involved, and KNOWN to be involved. I trusted my partners to know that a dance is a dance... Even now, most of my frotting is "safe", actually.... I think ALL of my frotting is safe.

The emotional connection on dance floor stuff, and closer physicality drawn from that: well being single now does, occasionally, put doubt in my mind... but have been ok, so far...

earlier, I wasn't asking if I was a sleaze.. lol... I know I'm just a damned good frotter!! It was about asking if these threads do bring up doubts about ur own dancing, and ur ability to read signals, etc...

[MartinHarper]

Cat, you'll have to verbalise, cos us sleazy guys can't read the subtle messages/body language.

Autism and related conditions are becoming more common, so that seems like good advice to me. I've even heard it speculated that such conditions are over-represented amongst male dancers, for various reasons. The other approach is to use the standard lead/follow tool kit to achieve space, and hope that the lead has been trained to read those signals, even if he can't read regular body language.

All easier said than done, of course.

[StokeBloke]

Bizarrely, I felt MUCH safer and more comfortable with UCP, even VERY UCP, when I was involved, and KNOWN to be involved. I trusted my partners to know that a dance is a dance... Even now, most of my frotting is "safe", actually.... I think ALL of my frotting is safe.

The emotional connection on dance floor stuff, and closer physicality drawn from that: well being single now does, occasionally, put doubt in my mind... but have been ok, so far...

Well sort of "yeah that!" In as much as I have only danced from the perspective of being in a long term loving relationship. This somehow makes dancing UCP (or even very UCP) seem less of a problem than it could otherwise be. I think the fact that I am at a venue with Twirlie Bird means that people know I am not looking for a date, or a relationship, or anything other than a dance. And that the dance is just a dance. I used to be worried about eye contact, let alone UCP blues moves when I started dancing. I read the links on Gadgets .sig file before my first blues night, it helped immensely. He's written some cracking stuff that some of you guys/gals may want to look through - including a piece called Sleaze on the Dance Floor

It was about asking if these threads do bring up doubts about ur own dancing, and ur ability to read signals, etc...

Yes! Personally I know my own intentions, but you hear so much about the way people percieve comments, signals, asking to dance, not being asked to dance, sitting down, standing up.... etc, etc, it's a minefield out there and I would hate to be thought of as a dirty old pervert (without at least having the fun of properly earning that rep ).

Ummm... there's more I could add, but my tea is ready

Stokie

[Isis]

Next thing you'll be telling me that people have sexual intercourse at weekenders.

I didn't know that was part of the package. How do I jump the queue on the waiting list?

[Freudian Hips]

Does anyone else have a complete crisis of confidence when these threads come out??

Or, is ot just me...

Do I dance too close? Have I caused offence?? Have I given wrong signals?!? etc, etc.. especially after a series of silly o'clock dances at Southport.

Oh, it's a mindfield...

Never

And anyway, it's those sabotage threads that make me paranoid .....

[gebandemuishond]

Autism and related conditions are becoming more common, so that seems like good advice to me. I've even heard it speculated that such conditions are over-represented amongst male dancers, for various reasons. The other approach is to use the standard lead/follow tool kit to achieve space, and hope that the lead has been trained to read those signals, even if he can't read regular body language.

Autistic Move Monsters, it all makes sense...

I've noticed the ballroom dancers at my university tend to be slightly lacking in social skills, when I'd have expected dancing to have the opposite effect. Maybe that's because there's more of an emphasis on medals than social dancing. Or maybe it's because there's a higher proportion of the socially inept at my uni anyway.

Dan

[David Bailey]

I didn't know that was part of the package. How do I jump the queue on the waiting list?

God knows. It's been so long, I can't even remember who ties up whom.

[JonD]

This thread reminded me that I haven't seen "Cling Film Mary" around for a while. Lord, that woman must have had some kind of medical condition; "frotting furnace syndrome" or something - the heat of her. Weird and not at all pleasant.

[Martin]

I once got the teacher come up to me and tell me she recieved complaints of me sleezing, when I was visiting a venue.

I go told to cut it out or leave

I was amazed, coz, yes, I dance blues and close stuff, but I do consider myself to be a good judge of "just how close to get" with each partner.

On asking the teacher when and with who I had "sleezed" - she said, it was last week, at the same venue....

It was my first time at that venue So there was no way I was there last week!

I must have an evil twin

[~*~Saligal~*~]

"perve" ... reasonably harmless yet unsolicited sexual attention - for the gratification of the perver rather than the pervee. Perver is generally aware of personal boundaries.
"sleaze"... is perve with higher intensity, and goes past the social boundaries ... so much so the silly perver becomes reckless and the intentions are far more obvious to the pervee... usually allowing pervee opportunity to retaliate.
(a little something from another thread)

[dep]

perver and pervee!!!
This lifetime learning thing is getting too much for me.
Yesterday it was frotting.
What's coming tomorrow?

[straycat]

dancing would be boring without the sleezy moves! had a creepy sleezy guy follow me out to my car once at dancing tho which wasnt fun.

I can assure you, it really, really, isn't.

Quite honestly, I find most of the 'sleazy' moves I've come across to be - at best - nothing more than a cheap thrill, completely devoid of any sort of real connection, feeling, or satisfaction. I want so much more out of a dance than that.

[Gadget]

Occasionally I will get you're too close:back off vibes from my partner, so I will. I think that most of the time I'm fairly good at reading the personal space of my partner and I'm good enough now that my connection will always be from a 'safe zone' on the follower.

In fact for some women there are times when I finish the dance thinking I've been 'over safe' with them: I am aware that it's a social dance floor and my actions contribute to the social 'level of acceptance'. I don't want anyone to site me as an excuse to get sleasy at my local vanue. My "UCP/Blues/Sleasy" dancing only comes out at weekenders and events ( with the rare exception )

[Astro]

Occasionally I will get you're too close:back off vibes from my partner, so I will. I think that most of the time I'm fairly good at reading the personal space of my partner and I'm good enough now that my connection will always be from a 'safe zone' on the follower.

A good indicater that the woman's not happy is she will immediately stiffen her body.

If possible, she will also immediately step back or sideways away from Mr Sleeze putting space between herself and him.

If she is happy she will relax and smile and go with it.

[dep]

A good indicator that the man's very happy is he will immediately stiffen his body.

did you really say that?

[dep]

Last night I took on board some of the etiquette you have been suggesting (must get that 3.5 sleaze factor down a bit).

I have after many failed attempts finally learned how to do the Penguin walk.
Previously, I maintained a "professional gap" between us.
My last lesson brought home the necessity to get in close.
I did with a few followers I know quite well and even attempted the foot slide lunge (a lot more practice needed).
But, a visitor from Dundee that I have not danced with before was daunting/tempting. I asked if she would mind a close up move and she declined. Ah well, at least I asked.

Just how close do we need to be?
Can the Penguin be mastered without contact?
Any clues?