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Thread: X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

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    X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

    See the on-line Guardian article.

    We've been here before, in the 1980s, when everyone went into a panic about 'video nasties'. All sorts of videos were banned outright as a consequence of an unfinished and badly designed piece of research that concluded that enormous quantities of very young children had been watching Driller Killer and Cannibal Holocaust and, in particular, Evil dead, a brilliant horror film.

    Except for Evil dead, I think they're still banned.

    Shortly after Parliament 'took action', a rather better designed piece of research showed that children were boasting* about what they had and had not seen, and showed the first piece of research to be total trash.

    Now nasty video games signal the end of civilisation as we know it, and led by the nose by newspapers trying to get more advertising revenue, half-wit MPs with the comprehension of a trilobite fossil are jostling to put up private members' bills.

    The sound of stable doors slamming in the face of people trying to hold back the tide is quite loud, really.

    Let me see now. I've played Doom; Doom 2; Doom 3; Quake; QII; QIII; QIV; Unreal; Unreal2; Tomb raider (all); Hitman 2; Thief III; Halo; others I can't be bothered to try to recall.

    Naturally as a consequence it's only a matter of time before I buy a chainsaw and go out on a rampage though Southampton...

    *(By the simple method of designing a questionnaire which purported to be about leisure pursuits generally, but was all about video watching; only 10% of the questions were about videos, thus blurring the focus for the little darlings. One of the real questions gave a list of 20 video nasties, 10 of which were made up - Attack of the Cannibal Nurses-type of thing. Equally as many children claimed to have seen the non-existent videos as the real ones, and the spread of real and non-existent videos for each child was statistically consistent. Conclusion: kids were mostly claiming to have seen videos because it was not cool to admit never having seen them.

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    Re: X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

    Well i must say something needs to be done. I have two boys, one is almost 16 yrs old. When he was younger the pressure on me as a parent to buy him tekken 1 etc when he was under the required age was immense. All of his mates had it and this was the start of many disagreements had as he was growing up about suitable computer games on the play station.

    Then i find his phone has loads of porn on it.. he had his phone when he went to senior school 12/13. I found it when he was 14ish.

    The things our children know now are far more advanced than when i was younger, i put a thread on about it i think about a year ago, when i found out what rainbow kissing was.

    How does a parent control these issues without putting them under lock and key (the kids i mean). Its very difficult and left as it is i dread to think what will happen to the new generation when it comes to values and making the wrong and right decisions in life.

    It scares the c5ap out of me.

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    Re: X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

    What's the problem?

    From that article:
    A legally enforceable cinema-style classification system is to be introduced for video games in an effort to keep children from playing damaging games unsuitable for their age, the Guardian has learned. Under the proposals, it would be illegal for shops to sell classified games to a child below the recommended age.
    Seems sensible.

    We have a system of classification for films and video - it's not unreasonable to regulate other distributed media is it? The difference between some narrative videos and a DVD is quite blureed sometimes.

    Ministers are also expected to advise parents to keep computers and games consoles away from children's bedrooms as much as possible, and ask them to play games in living rooms or kitchens facing outward so carers can see what is being played.
    A bit nanny-ish, but it's good advice. It's too easy to get a kid a TV / PC in their own room and leave them to it as a srrogate babysitter.

    I don't see this as being in any way equivalent to the video nasty thing in the 80s - which, I agree, was a lot of fuss about nothing.

    This seems like a sensible way of looking at loopholes and trying to classify media - and why shouldn't games be rated like DVDs are?

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    Re: X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

    I played Tekken when i was 7 or 8, it was on a demo that my uncle had. To be honest Tekken then was harmless...it didn't scare me, however playing Harry Potter and confronting a troll did scare me!

    I remember nagging mum about playing grand theft auto when i was 11, and sulking when she wouldn't let me even though my cousins Dan and John had it at 11 and 13...

    the violence in that was a lot more graphic then tekken.

    I also played Gun and that was not a pleasant game. My cousin Jake, who thrives on computer games got it for his 14th birthday And it was horrible. You were a cowboy, trying to beat a sherrif but you could shoot anyone in your way, sleep with saloon girls and then beat them up it does make you wonder...

    is that why so many knive carrying ASBO teens shoot other teens or rob them?

    Because they've seen it in Headhunter or Grand Theft Auto? And think it looks cool?

    It does make you wonder...

    One things or sure...give me rayman or spyro anyday..i like fluffy duffy games!

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    Re: X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Mac View Post
    One things or sure...give me rayman or spyro anyday..i like fluffy duffy games!
    Being a child from the 80's I nagged my folks for a SEGA when they first came out, I actually still have it in it's original packaging along with Sonic and Columns....

    I would rather spend my free time *outside* in the fresh air than cooped up playing games. Bring back the day when you were made to go out and -god forbid- exercise & socialise.

    At the end of the day, if kids want to play x-rated games, they'll find a way no matter what the restrictions!

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    Re: X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    At the end of the day, if kids want to play x-rated games, they'll find a way no matter what the restrictions!
    Ain't that the truth.

    The issue of whether children grow up with a healthy personality ready to become a sensible adult has got bugger all to do with videos or computer games. It's to do with what they learn from their parents. And the wider society they live in.

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    Cool Re: X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    Bring back the day when you were made to go out and -god forbid- exercise & socialise.
    There may be nothing like the sight of ruddy faced children in long scruffy shorts chasing a hoop with a stick down the cobbled high street whilst small groups cluster around wooden spinning tops. All laughing and singing nursery rhymes together with their pockets full of posies.... but the reality is, we live in a digital era now. No matter how much you may care to wear a top hat and promenade through the park on a Sunday pushing your perambulator, that is the simple fact.

    Things like mobile phones with Internet connectivity mean that children are exposed to the adult world much earlier these days. It is no good crying about that fact, as it is just that; a fact. Better to spend the time working out the best way of educating them and helping them to understand it so that any choices they face are made wisely.

    Now... where did I put my penny farthing, I need to go to the local grocers shop to top up my mobile.

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    Re: X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    {snip}
    but the reality is, we live in a digital era now.
    {snip}.
    Very true. Speaking from my observations on my young cousins, they can quote a whole movie because they have watched it from the age of 5. Personally i don't think that's healthy (nothing to do with the fact my memory is nowhere as good). Yes by all means, enjoy some digital entertainment, but nothing wrong with making time for fresh air, as I sit here on the PC while at work and watch lucky people walk on the beach

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    Re: X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    At the end of the day, if kids want to play x-rated games, they'll find a way no matter what the restrictions!
    Yes - but then the same goes for underage smoking, underage drinking, underage sex, and so on. Are you saying those should be unrestricted also, just because kids often find a way around the rules?

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    Re: X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    The issue of whether children grow up with a healthy personality ready to become a sensible adult has got bugger all to do with videos or computer games.
    Ummm... I think that's a bit simplistic.

    To me, it's more accurate to say that children get a lot of different influences that shape their lives - their parents, their peers, their schools, their culture, and so on. And video games are a part of their culture, so obviously they have some influence in some ways.

    It's easy to overestimate that influence of course - look at the connection the media made between "Old Boy" and the Virginia Tech shootings. But that's not to say the influence doesn't exist.

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    Re: X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    T
    Now... where did I put my penny farthing, I need to go to the local grocers shop to top up my mobile.
    i would actually pay money to see you on one of those Stokie..xx

    Anyway, with regards your other comments, true, its no good moaning about the fact that children have earlier exposure to violence, sex, drugs, alcohol, ciggerettes but i do think something should be done by the government to reduce the allowed exposure. Raising drinking to 21 for a start. Ensuring internet use is not allowed until person is proved 18 and restricted viewing before that for example.

    I think the age for smoking should also be 21 this would make smoking weed harder to do also.

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    Re: X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Ain't that the truth.

    The issue of whether children grow up with a healthy personality ready to become a sensible adult has got bugger all to do with videos or computer games. It's to do with what they learn from their parents. And the wider society they live in.

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    Re: X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    i would actually pay money to see you on one of those Stokie..xx

    Anyway, with regards your other comments, true, its no good moaning about the fact that children have earlier exposure to violence, sex, drugs, alcohol, ciggerettes but i do think something should be done by the government to reduce the allowed exposure. Raising drinking to 21 for a start. Ensuring internet use is not allowed until person is proved 18 and restricted viewing before that for example.

    I think the age for smoking should also be 21 this would make smoking weed harder to do also.
    I do think you are right but sadly all the while it isnt enforced by parents and children as young as 8 are allowed to wander the streets late into the night it doesnt matter what age the government put on things
    how are they going to enforce any of these things when most of the problem childrens parents are sitting in the pub rather than at home looking after little johnny etc

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    Re: X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Yes - but then the same goes for underage smoking, underage drinking, underage sex, and so on. Are you saying those should be unrestricted also, just because kids often find a way around the rules?
    Not at all. I'm saying it doesn't matter how little/many restrictions the government/parents put on games/videos/cigarettes people will find a way around those restrictions.

    I was 12 when I first started smoking, purely becaues I was told by my parents I wasn't allowed too. There were plenty shops nearby who would sell you them, even if you had the school uniform on.

    The restrictions are there for a reason, but if somebody is intent on watching that film/playing the game - then they will.

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    Re: X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    Not at all. I'm saying it doesn't matter how little/many restrictions the government/parents put on games/videos/cigarettes people will find a way around those restrictions.
    But, some people will always find a way round restrictions. That's pretty much irrelevant, it shouldn't usually affect whether the laws should be there or not. We shouldn't remove the law against burglary just because some people don't obey it, for example.

    So I'm not sure what you're saying - do you think that the restrictions shouldn't be there at all? Or that they're fine as they are? Or what?

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    Re: X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    We have a system of classification for films and video - it's not unreasonable to regulate other distributed media is it? The difference between some narrative videos and a DVD is quite blureed sometimes.
    Well games have the PEGI system for classification in Europe (America has the ESRB). There is no legal enforcement of this in the UK however. Most games in the UK are actually rated by the BBFC already (if they show graphic violence or something then they come under it; though they say 90% aren't but I'd state that either that includes all games in the history or gaming or my collection is completely screwed). At a quick look at my shelf I'd say over half of mine are BBFC rated but then maybe I'd go for more adult aimed games anyway. These are illegal to sell to someone under a given age but then I'm not sure how many parents realise that games aren't just for kids and wouldn't just buy an 18 game for their 12 year old.

    All current-generation consoles have content locks on them based on a 9 level system from 9 (super-violent) to 1 (which even a game about being a rubber duck and rescuing baby ducks gets a 2 on so god knows what 1 is). You can apply that on a console (or user) and any game above the set level cannot be played. Of course the kid is more likely to know about this than any parent is.

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    Re: X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by killingtime View Post
    Well games have the PEGI system for classification in Europe (America has the ESRB). There is no legal enforcement of this in the UK however. Most games in the UK are actually rated by the BBFC already (if they show graphic violence or something then they come under it; though they say 90% aren't but I'd state that either that includes all games in the history or gaming or my collection is completely screwed). At a quick look at my shelf I'd say over half of mine are BBFC rated but then maybe I'd go for more adult aimed games anyway. These are illegal to sell to someone under a given age but then I'm not sure how many parents realise that games aren't just for kids and wouldn't just buy an 18 game for their 12 year old.

    All current-generation consoles have content locks on them based on a 9 level system from 9 (super-violent) to 1 (which even a game about being a rubber duck and rescuing baby ducks gets a 2 on so god knows what 1 is). You can apply that on a console (or user) and any game above the set level cannot be played. Of course the kid is more likely to know about this than any parent is.
    So, in other words, it's a bit of a non-story.

    Blimey, Barry, you'll be quoting Daily Mail "Immigrants Are Evil" headlines at us next...

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    Re: X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by killingtime View Post
    These are illegal to sell to someone under a given age
    I'm not sure that's right. I'm not aware of any penalty for selling video games, regardless of BBFC rating. Are you able to cite the statute?

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    Re: X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    I'm not sure that's right. I'm not aware of any penalty for selling video games, regardless of BBFC rating. Are you able to cite the statute?
    I believe it is the exact same penalties and laws regarding the sale of films to someone below the age. The BBFC website didn't seem overly helpful to what this is though. They did mention:

    Quote Originally Posted by BBFC
    For the same reason, and because of the different way in which they are experienced, the Board may take a more precautionary approach in the case of those digital games which are covered by the Video Recordings Act.
    What that act would mean to the sale of particular rated item to someone under the rated age I don't know (if it means anything at all rather than the statement that the game must be rated in that way).

    Game had

    Quote Originally Posted by Game
    It is illegal to sell a product with a BBFC rating to someone below the age indicated by that rating.
    but they don't cite any further source.

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    Re: X-rated Lara Croft, anyone?

    From here:
    Under the terms of the Video Recordings Act 1984, it is the responsibility of the individual game distributor or developer to decide whether a game requires statutory classification or not. The BBFC has no authority to make any decision about whether a game could be exempt.
    It sounds like it's basically a loophole, and it sounds like lots of video game manufacturers are already submitting their games to the BBFC anyhow - so making this a legal requirement doesn't sound unreasonable.

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