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Thread: St. Albans - end of an era.......

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    Re: St. Albans - end of an era.......

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames;451041
    Yes, St. Albans has been successful, but as I recall, Jon B was DJ-ing, and Mick was teaching, at the [I
    previous[/I] incarnation of St. Albans, which was not successful. So based on that, I'm inclined to think that the main success has been because of the venue and location, rather than any particular teachers, demos or DJs.

    .
    yes i completely agree. A location is all important and demand for that area. I think the teaching has absolutely nothing to do with it. It does to the more advanced but not to regular once a week punters who go for a little jig and some fun which is what ceroc makes it main money out off. If anything Micks teaching was too advanced for most. Brill for doing some new stuff.

    I also think that the way people do these things is all telling about what that person is like. I think the way it was done (resignation) was pretty poor behaviour if indeed it happened that way and not really the gentlemanly thing to do. Adam is a lovely chap, always been great to his punters that i have seen and certainly did not deserve that sort of departure. He will not be worried i should think though as St Albans is a great venue site regardless of who teaches it.

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    Re: St. Albans - end of an era.......

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    "What makes a successful venue?" is a perennial question.

    I think the consensus is that it's a number of factors, including the location, the venue (floor etc.), and that thing, "atmosphere".

    Atmosphere is affected by the teachers and the music, certainly. For example, Berko wouldn't be sublime absent Marc and Ian on the decks - but it'd still be pretty good, simply from the setup.

    Some venues succeed (eg. St. Albans), some fail (Shenley was, I'm sorry to say, pretty rubbish), and some just bumble along.

    Yes, St. Albans has been successful, but as I recall, Jon B was DJ-ing, and Mick was teaching, at the previous incarnation of St. Albans, which was not successful. So based on that, I'm inclined to think that the main success has been because of the venue and location, rather than any particular teachers, demos or DJs.

    Now if they'd taken over St Albans as a failing venture, and turned it round, then It'd be pretty clear that the staff was the main reason. But they didn't.
    Not sure I fully agree with your analysis there David.

    St. Albans town hall on a Wednesday was brim full to capacity many times I went (from Nov 2005 when I started).

    What is your measure of 'success' is when you say that the previous incarnation was not successful. Do you mean this from the perspective of numbers of punters or are you looking at it from a 'sweet vibe/atmosphere' viewpoint?

    And just to clarify things: in the previous incarnation (at the town hall) on Wednesdays (at least when I started) Mick used to bring his own music and sometimes act as DJ (Jon B was elsewhere I think (Stevenage?). It was on a Thursday nite in St. Albans (same venue) with Carol as treacher, that Jon B. used to work. (I stand to be corrected - but that is how I remember it).

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    Re: St. Albans - end of an era.......

    Quote Originally Posted by JiveLad View Post
    Not sure I fully agree with your analysis there David.

    St. Albans town hall on a Wednesday was brim full to capacity many times I went (from Nov 2005 when I started).
    Was it? Huh - I dunno, I only went a couple of times, I was dragged along to demo and to teach salsa, that was probably mid-2005 I guess. It was OK, but I hear it got quieter and quieter - I could be wrong,

    Actually, that probably was on Thursdays, thinking about it - dunno what the Wednesdays were like.

    But either way, I still reckon the venue itself was the most important factor - the location, flooring and so on.

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    Re: St. Albans - end of an era.......

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Was it? Huh - I dunno, I only went a couple of times, I was dragged along to demo and to teach salsa, that was probably mid-2005 I guess. It was OK, but I hear it got quieter and quieter - I could be wrong,

    Actually, that probably was on Thursdays, thinking about it - dunno what the Wednesdays were like.

    But either way, I still reckon the venue itself was the most important factor - the location, flooring and so on.
    Yes - Thursdays were much quieter. Looking back at my very first blog entry from Feb 2006 - it mentions about "30 beginners". I used to enjoy Thursdays more at that time - because I could get extra help from Carol and the taxis, as they had fewer people to 'service'.

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    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: St. Albans - end of an era.......

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    But either way, I still reckon the venue itself was the most important factor - the location, flooring and so on.
    I don't,

    I've got lots of venues near me, that I could go to, with good floors and adequate parking, etc... so, why don't I go there more often?

    ..for me its primarily the other dancers, combined with the kind of music I like!
    Last edited by Lory; 8th-February-2008 at 06:41 PM.
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    Re: St. Albans - end of an era.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    ..for me its primarily the other dancers, combined with the kind of music I like!
    I think you are an exception... There's a venue not too far from me, where the music seems variable, the floor is appalling, and the teacher rude - yet it's packed.

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    Re: St. Albans - end of an era.......

    Quote Originally Posted by tsh View Post
    I think you are an exception... There's a venue not too far from me, where the music seems variable, the floor is appalling, and the teacher rude - yet it's packed.
    Stone me wheres that then???
    DTS Dave XXX XXX

    I think I know.

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    Re: St. Albans - end of an era.......

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    Stone me wheres that then???
    DTS Dave XXX XXX

    I think I know.
    Aye aye

    Can you PM me with the location - just interested to know if I have experienced it.....

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    Re: St. Albans - end of an era.......

    well...i am speechless!

    ST Albans was my first venue and i am never going to forget it.

    The teacher's Mick and Jo were excellent, with their help i am becoming quite a good dancer...

    As for Jon Brett, well i never hear a bad tune off the guy.

    The staff don't always crack a smile but i don't notice as i am always having a fab time!

    I have never had a bad night, although the numbers going up tend to be beginner's who want to try the intermediate class and freestyle, cue: Arm yanking, bouncing etc......

    But 200 people is such an achievement and wherever i go, if Mick, Jo and Jon Brett are there i always have an amazing time...

    one thing's for sure, I know Dad won't miss forking out for a curry every thursday with JB and the Gang...

    Well...I am defininitley going to the opening Hatfield Night to give my support to Mick, Jo and JB.

    Because...they are fab!

    By the way....Stevenage on a Wedensday is looking very promising at the moment....the numbers are getting higher and higher...

    young James and Amy are the teachers, both very keen and friendly, and always stay for the freestyle.

    JB on the decks...need i say more?

    And with DTS, Trouble and my lovely friend Lottie, who are always there to make me smile..how can i miss out?

    xxxxxxxxx

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    Re: St. Albans - end of an era.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Mac View Post
    Well...I am defininitley going to the opening Hatfield Night to give my support to Mick, Jo and JB.
    Your choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Mac View Post
    Because...they are fab!
    If seemingly untrustworthy.

    Call me an old fogey, but I think that sort of behaviour is highly unprofessional. In fact, it's probably actionable - I'm sure Ceroc has rules about its employees not advertising rival venues, and you can see why.

    This sort of thing will only encourage Ceroc to be more protective, less trusting, and less open to offers of cooperation with others. And if someone whinges about Evil Borg Ceroc, all they have to do now is say "Well, look what happens when we do trust someone, they stab us in the back".

    I'm sorry, but this sort of thing is just nasty. Admittedly, Simon's thing was pretty cheeky, but at least he didn't do his announcement at a Ceroc venue.

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    Re: St. Albans - end of an era.......

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Your choice.


    If seemingly untrustworthy.

    Call me an old fogey, but I think that sort of behaviour is highly unprofessional. In fact, it's probably actionable - I'm sure Ceroc has rules about its employees not advertising rival venues, and you can see why.

    This sort of thing will only encourage Ceroc to be more protective, less trusting, and less open to offers of cooperation with others. And if someone whinges about Evil Borg Ceroc, all they have to do now is say "Well, look what happens when we do trust someone, they stab us in the back".

    I'm sorry, but this sort of thing is just nasty. Admittedly, Simon's thing was pretty cheeky, but at least he didn't do his announcement at a Ceroc venue.
    David, as per your request: "you are an old fogey".

    Hmmm - twas a bit different if you were there. It was a fairly low key statement from Mick about the new start up. No-one really picked up on where it was - so at the end of the night, after the dancing, and outside the venue, several people were around Mick asking where the new venue etc. details of the web site. Of course, if he had not made the announcement it might have disrupted the evening with everyone buzzing around asking questions - as it was, the evening proceeded smoothly as normal.

    Anyway, as I said previously, and as I said to the wonderful crew (Barry, Kevin, Keith etc) last nite - it is a win-win-win situation. (See my previous post).

    And I understand from last night that Amy (mentioned in Mini-Mac's post) will be the new teacher at St. Albans on Thursday. (Not sure if that is 'official').

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    Re: St. Albans - end of an era.......

    And I understand from last night that Amy (mentioned in Mini-Mac's post) will be the new teacher at St. Albans on Thursday. (Not sure if that is 'official').[/QUOTE]

    Amy is a very good teacher but will the music be up to scratch?

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    Re: St. Albans - end of an era.......

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Your choice.
    Exactly. As has been said repeatedly (including by yourself if memory serves), most punters don't really want to know, or get involved with, the "business side of things".

    Call me an old fogey, but I think that sort of behaviour is highly unprofessional. In fact, it's probably actionable - I'm sure Ceroc has rules about its employees not advertising rival venues, and you can see why.
    I agree the announcement goes a bit far, but do you really think it's the main issue? Surely the main "betrayal" would be seen as Mick, Jo and JB starting a competing venue 'behind Ceroc's backs, and even if they'd not said a word on Mick's last night, CerocMetro would be just as angry about the whole affair?

    But that, unfortunately, is life. Some industries have the attitude that "yes, people will move around, it's no big deal", but most don't. And if you'll get sacked the moment you suggest you might be looking around, obviously you'll be secretive. When I interviewed people, it would be pretty common that they wouldn't want us contacting their current employers until the new job "was a done deal".

    I'm sorry, but this sort of thing is just nasty. Admittedly, Simon's thing was pretty cheeky, but at least he didn't do his announcement at a Ceroc venue.
    It's funny, but I see it the other way around. Yes, the announcement is tacky, but it seems Mick has at least been honest to his customers. Whereas Simon's "party" was far from that.

    As a dance customer and not an employer, I'm afraid it's that side of things that bothers me more.

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    Re: St. Albans - end of an era.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Mac View Post
    Amy is a very good teacher but will the music be up to scratch?
    Mmmm, personally I prefer Marie's stuff to Jon's.

    Different tastes, I expect.

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    Re: St. Albans - end of an era.......

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Mmmm, personally I prefer Marie's stuff to Jon's.

    Different tastes, I expect.
    no, David you are right, i like both Marie's and Jon's. I love Jon's music but not always the order it comes in. Like the last track at stevenage the other night was Singing in the rain....i thought something slower would be nice...

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    Re: St. Albans - end of an era.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Mac View Post
    no, David you are right, i like both Marie's and Jon's. I love Jon's music but not always the order it comes in. Like the last track at stevenage the other night was Singing in the rain....i thought something slower would be nice...
    Yes. I respect Jon's experience, and he's done some stonking stuff in the past - I remember the first Glitter Ball at Bedford, going in a group with a few others (including Gus if my memory serves) and having a great time.

    But I don't really connect to his style now.

    (BTW, in case of any confusion, the "party" discussion above refers to the Hippodrome event Simon Borland staged to launch Jive Nation a while back.)

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    Re: St. Albans - end of an era.......

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    It's funny, but I see it the other way around. Yes, the announcement is tacky, but it seems Mick has at least been honest to his customers.
    Errrm, except that they're not "his" customers, they're Cerocmetro's customers. Who he's making every effort to poach from. He's like a salesman nicking customers for a new employer, whilst still working for the old one. And he lends credibility to Ceroc's much-repeated claim that independents are just parasites.

    Frankly, there's loads of MJ choice in the North London area anyhow - yes, OK, they're mostly Ceroc, but they are different in tone from each other. There's no real extra choice offered by yet another MJ venue opening up.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    As a dance customer and not an employer, I'm afraid it's that side of things that bothers me more.
    As I recall, I thought the launch party thing was more funny than anything else. But then I didn't go, so I may have had a different attitude if I'd been there.

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    Re: St. Albans - end of an era.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Mac View Post
    By the way....Stevenage on a Wedensday is looking very promising at the moment....the numbers are getting higher and higher...

    young James and Amy are the teachers, both very keen and friendly, and always stay for the freestyle.

    JB on the decks...need i say more?

    xxxxxxxxx
    JB wont be on the decks at stevenage now as he doesnt work for cerocmetro any more

    And for those who think the crew is so badly done by why did jon ask tezi if he could go to stevenage one last time this week and dj?
    obviously that wouldn't make good business sense as he will be just there to promote his own business as he did whilst being paid by adam and cerocmetro so sadly he wont be doing it

    personally i think the whole affair is really bad and shows a total lack of loyalty ( i know i am a taxi for adam and have been around cm for 9 years) so some of you will be thinking i am just protecting my friend i like to think that i have some morals i always thought if you were being paid by one business you are selling your time to that business therefore you do not use you bosses time to promote your own business in competition with your boss

    Perhaps adam should charge jb mw etc some money for the advertising that they have been doing on his time at one of his venues

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    Re: St. Albans - end of an era.......

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    I agree the announcement goes a bit far, but do you really think it's the main issue? Surely the main "betrayal" would be seen as Mick, Jo and JB starting a competing venue 'behind Ceroc's backs, and even if they'd not said a word on Mick's last night, CerocMetro would be just as angry about the whole affair?
    i really dont agree any competition is always a good thing
    i think mick should have told adam he was leaving before anouncing to adams customers that he was opening a new independent venue by the way none of them have bothered to talk to adam in any way whatsoever at least until 3 pm saturday uk time as i was with tezi and robin today at a busk in bishops stortford) The way adam found out was because Mick sent a txt to Tezi after he had announced it to the class they couldnt even be bothered to phone her.I for one love micks teaching but this is purely a stab in the back

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    Re: St. Albans - end of an era.......

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    Perhaps adam should charge jb mw etc some money for the advertising that they have been doing on his time at one of his venues
    As I said, I wonder if he'd have a case for damages? Probably not worth it, but it's an interesting question.

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