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Thread: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)

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    FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)

    The Archtwit of Canterbury wants and approves the introduction of sharia law into the UK.

    My comment?

    Shut up.

    Eff off.

    Stick to magic, wine and biscuits and leave important things like this to people who know what they're talking about.

    Conflict of laws is bad enough when dealing with foreign jurisdictions, the suggestion that we should introduce an additional conflict of laws within the UK itself is rowf rowf!! stupid.

    Besides that, Sharia law is primitive and repellent.

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    Re: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)

    Actually, for once I agree with you whole-heardtedly Barry!

    However, I have to suggest, that unless you have a masochistic tendency, that for the sake of your sanity and blood pressure you avoid reading such things!

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    Re: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)

    Is he on drugs? (Williams, not Barry)

    That's just... well, weird, in many many different ways.

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    Re: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Actually, for once I agree with you whole-heardtedly Barry!

    However, I have to suggest, that unless you have a masochistic tendency, that for the sake of your sanity and blood pressure you avoid reading such things!
    There was a long interview with Whispering Williams on The World at One. I only referenced the article 'cos I couldn't reference - um - the Radio 4 programme.

    Thanks for the concern, my blood pressure is fine. But I'm afraid I blew my Lent resolution and let rip with a few choice expletives. (Under my breath, of course, otherwise people might think I have **** *******S BASTARD Tourette's or something.)

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    Re: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Actually, for once I agree with you whole-heardtedly Barry!
    Me too !!

    But the odd interest free loan now and again might not go amiss

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    Re: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)



    Would somebody help me understand how on earth somebody, whom I assume educated, can say something like that:
    (honesly, I struggle to imagine one strong argument behind this)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Rowan Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury
    An approach to law which simply said - there's one law for everybody - I think that's a bit of a danger
    Isn't that a fundamental principle in a society: same law applies to all, whether a simple citizen or a 'king' ?

    IMO the UK most of the time goes way to far in its quest for multiculturalism and acceptance of all cultures. Part of being the citizen of a country means that there is a set of common 'things' that all citizens of that country share: most often language, some history, a justice system, political institutions, etc.

    In the last local elections in Aberdeen I saw people advocating that the leaflets and voting paperwork should be translated in Polish now that a lot of Polish immigrants had come in, so that they would be able to understand what they vote for.
    Surely if you decide to live in a country and intend to use your right to vote, you should have a sufficient knowledge of the local language to enable you to do that ?

    Keep going and I'll request that this forum is fully available in French, I feel alienated reading all that English gibberish.

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    Re: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)

    And they wonder why people are travelling down the murky road of militant atheism...

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    Re: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)

    Well, it's headline news in the Mail:
    Daily Mail, Mail on Sunday, news, sport, showbiz, health, femail, comment | the Daily Mail

    No surprise there, of course.

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    Re: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Actually, for once I agree with you whole-heardtedly Barry!
    Me too. How boring! I prefer an argument

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    Re: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Well, it's headline news in the Mail:

    No surprise there, of course.
    Absolutely. Be no surprise if they were planning publication of a special, early evening supplement in full colour.

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    Re: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    Me too. How boring! I prefer an argument
    You see? It's working. Week by week my dazzling virtuoso displays of unassailable logic and snort-inducing witty humour are gradually changing your views of the world...

    ...soon, you will all be subscribing one-tenth of your income to my Rational Humanist Progress League...mwa ha ha haaaar!

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    Re: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    ...soon, you will all be subscribing one-tenth of your income to my Rational Humanist Progress League...mwa ha ha haaaar!
    Pah, you'll need a better acronym than that to conquer the world. RHPL? It's rubbish.

    SPECTRE - now that's a cool name.

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    Re: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    The Archtwit of Canterbury wants and approves the introduction of sharia law into the UK.

    My comment?

    Shut up.

    Eff off.

    Stick to magic, wine and biscuits and leave important things like this to people who know what they're talking about.

    Conflict of laws is bad enough when dealing with foreign jurisdictions, the suggestion that we should introduce an additional conflict of laws within the UK itself is rowf rowf!! stupid.

    Besides that, Sharia law is primitive and repellent.
    Im surprised at the forums racial and intolerant mode to what really is just a subject of debate

    I assume people already know the government and banks by way of loans and mortgages are falling over themselves to comply with Sharia law in the UK

    Government may issue sharia bonds, says Balls | Money | The Guardian

    I thought this comment was interesting

    ---------------------------
    "We don't either want a situation where, because there's no way of legally monitoring what communities do... people do what they like in private in such a way that that becomes another way of intensifying oppression inside a community."
    ------------------------
    Which could lead to this

    Brits In Saudi: Dying for a drink in the desert kingdom | Independent, The (London) | Find Articles at BNET.com

    Live and let live

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    Re: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Pah, you'll need a better acronym than that to conquer the world. RHPL? It's rubbish.

    SPECTRE - now that's a cool name.
    the Society of Previously Endoctrined Christians Tshnikov Reformed ?

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    Re: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Im surprised at the forums racial and intolerant mode to what really is just a subject of debate

    I assume people already know the government and banks by way of loans and mortgages are falling over themselves to comply with Sharia law in the UK

    Government may issue sharia bonds, says Balls | Money | The Guardian

    I thought this comment was interesting

    (...)
    Which could lead to this

    Brits In Saudi: Dying for a drink in the desert kingdom | Independent, The (London) | Find Articles at BNET.com

    Live and let live

    Your ability to confuse matters of business and justice is astounding

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    Re: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    The Archtwit of Canterbury wants and approves the introduction of sharia law into the UK.

    My comment?

    Shut up.

    Eff off.

    Stick to magic, wine and biscuits and leave important things like this to people who know what they're talking about.

    Conflict of laws is bad enough when dealing with foreign jurisdictions, the suggestion that we should introduce an additional conflict of laws within the UK itself is rowf rowf!! stupid.

    Besides that, Sharia law is primitive and repellent.
    Good grief! You're so black and white on these matters Barry that I do wonder what goes on inside your head, that you seem compelled to constantly seek religiously related material to moan about...

    First off, Williams doesn't say or infer ANYWHERE in the article you've posted that he 'wants' or 'approves' the introduction of Sharia Law in the UK. What he says is that this may be an issue to address and gives the reasons why. So why should he be ridiculed for that?? He's saying that with the growing number of Muslims in this country that this could be a source of concern for EVERYBODY and instead of ignoring it we should debate it.

    Did you also notice how the headline says: 'Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable' and yet the quote directly below that headline about Williams actually said: The Archbishop of Canterbury says the adoption of certain aspects of Sharia law in the UK "seems unavoidable".

    Now that doesn't mean that I don't think he's a bit of twat generally, but in this instance this is just typical of the press and certain gullible individuals () jumping on the bandwagon..

    As for Sharia Law itself.. well, again if you actually research it, you'll find that although there have been some very high profile cases that have depicted extreme examples of the law being enforced, in many countries they use the Law as guide to a way of living and this means that the Law is not enforced as is usually depicted: Examples:

    'Within sharia law, there is a specific set of offences known as the Hadd offences. These are crimes punished by specific penalties, such as stoning, lashes or the severing of a hand. The penalties for Hadd offences are not universally adopted as law in Islamic countries.

    Some countries, such as Saudi Arabia, claim to live under pure sharia law and enforce the penalties for Hadd offences. In others, such as Pakistan, the penalties have not been enforced. The majority of Middle Eastern countries, including Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon and Syria, have not adopted Hadd offences as part of their state laws.

    Hadd offences carry specific penalties, set by the Koran and by the prophet Mohammed. These include unlawful sexual intercourse (outside marriage); false accusation of unlawful intercourse; the drinking of alcohol; theft; and highway robbery. Sexual offences carry a penalty of stoning to death or flogging while theft is punished with cutting off a hand.'

    Is it barbaric? Yes it is, and yes the Law is abused by countries who wish to interpret it in certain ways. As for Hadd offences - well, apart from the obviously ridiculous punishments and the religious nature of some of them, the main elements would get my vote (if I voted..)

    Hand amputation for thieves - absolutely.
    Flogging for rape offenders and child abusers - absolutely.

    Might solve the escalating crime rates in this Country.. what do you think?
    Last edited by Rocky; 7th-February-2008 at 04:44 PM.

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    Re: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)

    The transcript of the actual interview is here:
    The Archbishop of Canterbury - Interview on civil and religious law for BBC World at One Programme

    I guess what really confuses the heck out of me is what on Earth the head of a Christian Church is doing talking about Sharia Law - especially because he clearly knows very little about it?

    Shouldn't he be talking about, you know, Christianity? Lent, for example? Or Easter? That sort of thing?

    He makes no mention of Christianity throughout the entire interview. How weird is that?

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    Re: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    You see? It's working. Week by week my dazzling virtuoso displays of unassailable logic and snort-inducing witty humour are gradually changing your views of the world...
    No. Week by week the positive, calm, tolerant attitude of the enlightened, spiritual forumites is having a good influence on you and you are gradually learning to make sensible, logical posts, inviting discussion rather than hysterical rantings about religious cretins.

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    Re: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Im surprised at the forums racial and intolerant mode to what really is just a subject of debate
    Oh, good grief Stewart. Sharia is a religious issue, not a racist one. Secondly, nothing I have ever, ever come across in my entire life suggests that there is a scintilla of obligation on me or anyone else to tolerate nasty stuf like sharia law. I object that it exists in Sudan, never mind in England.

    I have not the slightest intention of being tolerant of the idea that people should be able to pick and choose whether they use sharia law or english to decide what happens to the wife and children in a divorce. It is ludicrous.

    The correct procedure is to refuse to tolerate sharia provisions, to apply the law of England and Wales and those who don't like it can lump it. Until, that is, they are able to muster a parliamentary majority and vote to change the laws through parliament.
    I assume people already know the government and banks by way of loans and mortgages are falling over themselves to comply with Sharia law in the UK
    ...which in itself is wrongheaded and should stop.
    I thought this comment was interesting
    ---------------------------
    "We don't either want a situation where, because there's no way of legally monitoring what communities do... people do what they like in private in such a way that that becomes another way of intensifying oppression inside a community."
    ------------------------
    Sorry Stewart, I thought that comment was utter nonsense. People do not do what they like in private if they wish it to be able to enforce it at a later date. By all means enter an agreement on the basis that sharia law will apply if it goes wrong; however, if one of the parties applies to a court of England and Wales because he hasn't got what he wants from the sharia court, then it must be obvious that it is English law which will apply.

    If there is oppression in communities which submit to sharia law then all the more important to let the far more reasonable, rational, and just principles of a modern legal system loose in that community rather than try to pander to the clerics who have the authority.
    Live and let live
    I don't want to kill anybody, I just want to stop this unebelievably stupid idea that you can have two distinct and separate legal regimes operating in a single country.

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    Re: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! (more religion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    Your ability to confuse matters of business and justice is astounding
    So its ok to make some money out of 'them' but not let 'them' have some say in 'divorce laws'.

    Did you read the whole article or just take Barry's rant on it ?

    ps whats wrong in letting people bank how they like ?

    If a million pixies want to deposit turnips and a bank agreed to it and made 'money' whats wrong with that ?? Im sorry its racial intolerance

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    ...which in itself is wrongheaded and should stop.

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