Leaders – I love being hijacked on every move I lead
Leaders – I like being hijacked but not excessively
Leaders – The odd hijack keeps me on my toes
Leaders – The odd hijack slightly annoys me
Leaders – Constant hijacking is annoying
Leaders – I hate being hijacked on every move I lead
Leaders – For me I think it can be dangerous
Followers - I love hijacking on every move
Followers – I like to hijacking moves occasionally
Followers – I never hijack as I don’t like to
Followers – For me I think it can be dangerous
When the follower knows full well what the leader is intending then that changing it by purposefully not following any possibility shown by the lead
Or something like that. Definitions like this are not neccessary and detract from a little thing called "using a bit a nous".
Sorry, yeah, I think you have got it slightly wrong.. of course its up to her and she can do/say what she likes.. what I meant was, she shouldn't 'need' to have an excuse or explanation, as to why she doesn't want to do them with 'certain' leads but like to do them with others!
If she genuinely has a bad back (poor thing) then of course, its a good idea to let the lead know.. what I was against was someone having to make up a lie about having a bad back, in order to prevent a lead forcing a drop on her.
Last edited by Lory; 8th-February-2008 at 03:49 PM.
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For Caro - nous is slang for common sense
Steven - how do you know that the follow knows what the leader intended? Are you a mind-reader? And isn't MJ supposed to be a male lead (which has been interpreted on here as the lead inviting the follow to do certain things) not a male forced dance?
So what if you've "invited" the follow to do something she doesn't like or feel comfortable with? Is the poor thing just supposed to put up with it? I guess that for the duration of one dance it might be OK, but chances are that she won't want to dance with you again if she doesn't like certain of your moves.
And this works both ways - if you dance with a follow who sabotages in a way you don't like - just avoid her!
I would hope that any sabotage/hijacking would be done in a way that is safe and hopefully playfull, but not all of us are perfect (well, not all the time anyway )
Boy, there's no end of fun in that one is there?
The reason I asked, is that I've had this happen to me when leading West Manhattans / Columbians. If it's that sort of thing, there's some good hints here:
http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/i...part-12-a.html
True. It's not forced. But for some too much resistence/refusing to do as intended can get annoying. Some is OK but too much is a no for me.
I'm new at following so will dive into anything led atm. But I'll be sure to learn this comfort aspect.
Aye!
Ithink I did that, robd It is a lead that almost always ends in a dip and I thought I felt something move slightly down my back - could have just been your arm brushing my shoulder blade. Apologies.
Certainly I have been complimented in the past for being able to "save" moves. Where things have gone wrong, I can nearly always turn it into something. This could, however, lead to leads (!) thinking I am hijacking/sabotaging on purpose.
When I was dancing with TP on Wednesday, he lead a walk across, I followed this but extended into a slide. Is this a sabotage? I did what he led and he didn't not lead a slide He then came back at me with a further slide to extend the whole movement (because, he said he wasn't going to let a woman ........)
I think it would be fair to say that if an experienced follow was doing something different to what was being led on almost every move then it's more than just a poor lead causing it.
I think the point here is one of intent, was this playful or malicious Steven?
Was it one-up-manship designed to 'put a lead in his place', or a little bit of playful fun that just got out of hand?
You see there is one particular follow that I dance with who I expect to trash my lead at every opportunity. Hijack, sabotage, steal, bludgeon, alter, twist, develop or otherwise stomp all over the carefully crafted moves I am delicately knitting together to the music that's being played. Each and every dance is a mad a$$ scrabble that leaves me physically and mentally breathless. In fact I often only have enough energy to say "another one?" with a hopeful glint in my eye She's one of my favorite EVER dancers!
See, when it's good, it's very very good, and when it's bad it's excruciating.
Yeah, thinking about it I do think it has something to do with ability as well as other things. Most women who lead (not being sexist or anything) are still beginner to average level having spent a majority of their dance life following. I will sabotage a good leader sometimes. Dancing with men is more of a playful thing anyhow and will 9/10 get the crowd watching so a bit of playful showing off is sometimes called for. I will not sabotage a beginner or someone who I dont feel will be able to deal with it.
A follow that cant lead can sabotage (see below)
The follower should never sabotage defensivly. Why? Because the leader shouldn't make them have to. If a leader puts someone in to a drop then they should be happy that the follower is allowing it, but to answer your question...
When I teach drops, I will always teach a way of the follow avoiding the drop (bending leg and going in to a sitting position norm). I personally beg all MJ teachers to do the same along with explianing why men shouldn't just throw women to the floor.
At the end of the day though for us men we know20-30 or so moves and doing them again and again and again gets repetative and boring if every woman followed in exactly the same way.
If you have a woman that sabotages everymove, think on your feet. Sabotage her sabotage.
At a lesson recently we had the slow comb taught with two wiggles and then the lady pushing the man away with her hand on his chest as part of the move.
I am quite happy for this to be taught as "sabotage", where the lady does not want to be that close to the guy, but I found that I really did not like it being taught as part of the normal move.
I'd agree that learning to lead helps the follower embellish or alter in a way that requests or demands co-operation from the lead, and learning to follow helps the leader provide that co-operation. However, it's hardly necessary.
To my mind, the direct approach is more important. The follower should learn to embellish well, and the leader should learn to provide co-operation for those embellishments well. This means doing dance lessons with competent teachers.
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