View Poll Results: What are your thoughts on HIJACKING?

Voters
31. You may not vote on this poll
  • Leaders – I love being hijacked on every move I lead

    2 6.45%
  • Leaders – I like being hijacked but not excessively

    8 25.81%
  • Leaders – The odd hijack keeps me on my toes

    4 12.90%
  • Leaders – The odd hijack slightly annoys me

    0 0%
  • Leaders – Constant hijacking is annoying

    2 6.45%
  • Leaders – I hate being hijacked on every move I lead

    1 3.23%
  • Leaders – For me I think it can be dangerous

    0 0%
  • Followers - I love hijacking on every move

    0 0%
  • Followers – I like to hijacking moves occasionally

    12 38.71%
  • Followers – I never hijack as I don’t like to

    2 6.45%
  • Followers – For me I think it can be dangerous

    0 0%
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Thread: What are your thoughts on Sabotaging?

  1. #1
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    What are your thoughts on Sabotaging?

    I’m keeping stum on this issue for the moment…(I’ll reply later)...

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on HIJACKING?

    Before we get into this, yet again, can you define what you mean by "hijacking"?

    Last time we discussed this, we found that people had different definitions of that term.

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    Re: What are your thoughts on HIJACKING?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Before we get into this, yet again, can you define what you mean by "hijacking"?

    Last time we discussed this, we found that people had different definitions of that term.
    A deliberate alteration of a move that the leader had intended.

    Kind of like what Jamie did to McG in that youtube vid.

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    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on HIJACKING?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Before we get into this, yet again, can you define what you mean by "hijacking"?
    I also don't think some of the options really make sense. After all, is there any lead who doesn't hate it if every move they lead is hijacked?

  5. #5
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    Re: What are your thoughts on HIJACKING?

    Hijacking is one of those things where it will work with some people you dance with and not with others.

    As a lead I dont mind being hijacked, but only because I can cope with it. There are many men that can't deal with a follow hijacking and therfore will hate it or just wonder what the follow is doing.

    I, in follow mode, will hijack some moves, depending on who I am dancing with and if the music dictates.

    Something I always hear in class is that MJ is a man lead dance. This is wrong IMO, it's a man suggested dance. The follow should have just as much control over what is happening as the follow.

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on HIJACKING?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    A deliberate alteration of a move that the leader had intended.
    Sorry, but that's still not very precise. That definition covers the entire spectrum of follower stylistic interpretation, from "playing", all the way up to "sabotage".

    Obviously, there is a spectrum here - and different people have different tolerances / predilections at different areas.

    So are you calling the entire range "hijacking", or just a subset of that range?

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    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on HIJACKING?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    A deliberate alteration of a move that the leader had intended.
    I wouldn't consider that hi-jacking. Hi-jacking is IMO taking control of the move, taking over the lead of that move.

    I therefore can't vote on this poll as the definition is not what I consider hi-jacking.

  8. #8
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on HIJACKING?

    Last edited by David Bailey; 5th-February-2008 at 05:08 PM.

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    Re: What are your thoughts on HIJACKING?

    I am assuming that Mr666 was is meaning Sabotage rather than what most people would call hijacking.

    Say two men were dancing, both could lead/follow and then one took over control of the lead for an indefinate period by, say, turning a basket which he is lead in to, in to an octopus which he leads, I would define that as hijacking.

    If a follow was to alter the leads intention with a move, by say, ducking when pulled in to a basket (sometimes called a tunnel) but allowed the lead to maintain control, I would define that as sabotage.

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    Re: What are your thoughts on HIJACKING?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    I am assuming that Mr666 was is meaning Sabotage rather than what most people would call hijacking.

    Say two men were dancing, both could lead/follow and then one took over control of the lead for an indefinate period by, say, turning a basket which he is lead in to, in to an octopus which he leads, I would define that as hijacking.

    If a follow was to alter the leads intention with a move, by say, ducking when pulled in to a basket (sometimes called a tunnel) but allowed the lead to maintain control, I would define that as sabotage.
    You sir are correct. Damn my literacy numpty skill. If a mod could change the title...

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    Re: What are your thoughts on HIJACKING?

    I hate that word 'highjacking' or 'sabotaging'.

    I don't highjack, I contribute to the dance, musically where possible.

    Sometimes it means that I can change the timing of a move a little, or the shape of it. Mostly it happens smoothly, but that takes experience (hence some have to put up with not-so-smooth experimentations at times... well, sorry, but it'll get better )

    If I'd had to follow only and not add/change anything, I'd have the impression to be a robot. Not what dancing is about to me.

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    Re: What are your thoughts on HIJACKING?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    I hate that word 'highjacking' or 'sabotaging'.

    I don't highjack, I contribute to the dance, musically where possible.

    Sometimes it means that I can change the timing of a move a little, or the shape of it. Mostly it happens smoothly, but that takes experience (hence some have to put up with not-so-smooth experimentations at times... well, sorry, but it'll get better )

    If I'd had to follow only and not add/change anything, I'd have the impression to be a robot. Not what dancing is about to me.
    As I said earlier, It should only be a man sugested dance, at least once the dancers are past a certain level.

    For me it is one of the things that makes a good dancer rather than just going through the moves learnt in class systematicly with the follower just plodding along.

    Infact I think it would be impossible for a follow to inject any musicality in to a dance without altering a leads move one way or another be it in the timing, shape or any other way.

    If all follows danced the same then us men would have the same dances with every follow we lead.

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    Re: What are your thoughts on HIJACKING?

    I thought hijacking refered to taking someone else's partner, and maybe giving them your cast off in return

  14. #14
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Sabotaging?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    You sir are correct. Damn my literacy numpty skill. If a mod could change the title...
    Done.

    And my view - sabotage is a Bad Thing.

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on HIJACKING?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    I hate that word 'highjacking' or 'sabotaging'.
    Well I hate the word "Gobbledygook" personally. Errr... and?

    Are you saying that you hate the word, or that you hate the action, or that there's no such thing, or what?

  16. #16
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Sabotaging?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Done.

    And my view - sabotage is a Bad Thing.
    Care to expand on that?

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: What are your thoughts on Sabotaging?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    Care to expand on that?
    Sure.

    It's really really bad. Don't do it.



    Oh, OK. See here:
    http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/i...-sabotage.html

    I've not changed my mind since then.
    Last edited by David Bailey; 5th-February-2008 at 05:40 PM.

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    Re: What are your thoughts on Sabotaging?

    Clearly too much can be bad and annoying, but a little is fun and keeps people on their toes. Whether you like it or not is fair enough, but what annoys me is if you do a variation on a move and the guy just repeats it until you do it "His way". To me, this is not dancing with somebody but sticking with a fixed, unflexible routine.

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    Re: What are your thoughts on Sabotaging?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Oh, OK. See here:
    from this 'here' place:
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Surprise change-of-leads are just plain silly - they may be fun in a muckabout kind of way, but so is pulling a funny face, that doesn't make it dancing.
    Have to disagree here... when done well, sabotage can be fantastic. YES - it's hard to do it well, (and it's definitely best done with a leader who's up for it), but it can add a great dynanmic to a dance.

    Nicest example someone's sprung on me was in Leeds recently - I'd led some kind of underarm turn which involved me turning in some way as well - and before I new it, my partner had used her momentum and mine to continue my turn, turned me under her arm, and took the lead over for a few bars. The whole thing felt completely natural, went perfectly with the music, and reminded me a) just how seamless and how much fun a good piece of sabotage can be, and b) that she's a better lead than I am.

    Yes, do it, sez I. Just do it carefully, and avoid doing it with DJ if he hasn't taken his pills that day (if he starts pulling 'funny' faces at you during a dance, sabotage away )

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    Re: What are your thoughts on Sabotaging?

    I think it's quite fun if the follower does something interesting and unexpected, although I've only really experienced the two extremes:

    1) A lady I've danced with a couple of times who has quite a 'street' style and does things like duck out of moves and things. It's fun because it keeps you on your toes and makes the dance more of a two way discussion. It's almost like when a couple of english friends have conversations in french for fun (or maybe I just have a strange sense of fun).

    2) Another lady I've danced with a bit insists on slowly and 'seductively' walking in a circle under my arm every second return I lead. This would be fine except it gets a bit boring after a while, and I stop trying to keep dancing, sigh and just wait for her to finish 'her thing'.


    So I guess my thoughts are: ça depend...

    Dan

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