Are you as smart as a Woolworths employee?

[Barry Shnikov]

I's so glad I went with Rebecca. Please tell me that's an OK name.

Rebecca is OK, but you need to stop short of 'Mrs de Winter'.


Last night, I dreamt I went to Manderley...

[David Bailey]

On the poll results so far, about 75% of respondents recognise "Lolita" as the young girl in Nabakov's novel.

Interestingly, the ones who don't recognise it seem to be either young whippersnappers ( ), or non-UK residents. Or both.

Not sure what that says about Woollies staff recruitment policy...

[Jhutch]

Would have known that it was a bit of a controversial name but wouldnt have known exactly why

[David Bailey]

Reading through the original (and ongoing) debate on the raisingkids forum, I think this explanation for the name sounds plausible:

Their bedding range will be splashed all over every newspaper along with the outrage and the quotes from childrens charities for a week then they will apologise, perhaps change the name but the end objective is the same and met at the end of it all. A whole lot of free publicity for a mediocre product.
Shock advertising should be banned and the media should refuse to show or print pictures of the products. but they wont because outrage sells!

Depressing, but plausible.

And the protestations of innocence / ignorance by Woolworths seem even more unlikely now. Especially considering they're happy to sell Playboy-branded beds.

Call me Mr Cynical...

[Beowulf]

A little while back I went though my "Stanley Kubrick" movie phase. I really got into his movies and as such decided to buy his entire collection.

I went into HMV I think? (or was it Fopp?) and started to buy a couple of the DVD's at a time.. "Dr Strangelove" and "Full Metal Jacket".. Not an eyelid batted. , The Shining" and "2001: A Space Odyssey" .. not a sideways glance.. However.. I go in and buy "Lolita" .. dirty looks from the girl behind the counter, a "knowing smirk" from the guy that served me. Made me mad.

I used to have it in my collection but people would come in and comment on it "Why do you have that? isn't that a dirty old man's film?" It got so frustrating at after a while I actually took the DVD off my shelves and flogged it on ebay.

It didn't matter that I had all his other movies (Not counting A.I. which was pants!) all people would see was "Lolita" and immediately judge me on it.

As Twirly says.. Would you judge someone for watching Romeo And Juliet? After all the eponymous Juliet was only 14 when she had her star cross'd fling

[batnurse]

As Twirly says.. Would you judge someone for watching Romeo And Juliet? After all the eponymous Juliet was only 14 when she had her star cross'd fling

Well I doubt that sex under the age of 16 was against the law at the time. Plus, in Lolita the man is much older than her. I must admit, I've only ever seen clips of the film, but had always considered it a bit dodgy.

[Barry Shnikov]

I went into HMV I think? (or was it Fopp?) and started to buy a couple of the DVD's at a time.. "Dr Strangelove" and "Full Metal Jacket".. Not an eyelid batted. , The Shining" and "2001: A Space Odyssey" .. not a sideways glance.. However.. I go in and buy "Lolita" .. dirty looks from the girl behind the counter, a "knowing smirk" from the guy that served me. Made me mad.

Why? It's about immoral and unethical behaviour and the corruption of a young (though not-so-innocent) girl. The others feature guns and spaceships. "Here comes Star Trek geek" they said, nudging each other, when you walked in. And then you hand over Lolita.

I used to have it in my collection but people would come in and comment on it "Why do you have that? isn't that a dirty old man's film?" It got so frustrating at after a while I actually took the DVD off my shelves and flogged it on ebay.

Good grief. First, you had 8 billion DVDs but people only saw Lolita? Why didn't you move it into a less prominent room? Second, where's yer moral fibre? "Just because a book or film is about questionable people and events doesn't make it questionable itself." Anyway, neither Sue Lyon nor Dominique Swain were under-age.

[Beowulf]

Why? It's about immoral and unethical behaviour and the corruption of a young (though not-so-innocent) girl. The others feature guns and spaceships. "Here comes Star Trek geek" they said, nudging each other, when you walked in. And then you hand over Lolita.

Hehe... I used to love handing over a trashy hollywood blockbuster then handing over an arty foreign film like "Battleship Potemkin" Just to challenge their expectations

Good grief.where's yer moral fibre? .

I know..you're 100% correct. But I got sick of the continual "Nudge nudge wink wink" comments. I'm (or at least I was) very sensitive to peoples opinions. Personally I didn't think Lolita was one of his best.. it's good.. but The Shining, Full Metal Jacket and Dr Strangelove all knock it into a cocked hat.. and Clockwork Orange trumps them all (IMHO)

[Barry Shnikov]

I'm (or at least I was) very sensitive to peoples opinions.

Quite right too - but only people who you care about. People who rush to judgment on the strength of one video...

I would have to say my favourite Kubrick's are Paths of glory, Dr Strangelove and The shining. Clockwork orange doesn't make it because I can't do with the editing; 2001 has the interminable and interminably boring acid trip sequence; Full metal jacket is two films with no connection other than featuring the same characters (though it's fun trying to see if you can spot which bits of Docklands are featuring in the latter part of the film!) Although the final sequence with the soldiers all singing the Mickey Mouse Club song almost makes up for the entire thing.

Having said that, most of his films can clean the floor with most other directors' work.

Glad you didn't mention Eyes wide shut, that was horrible.

[jeanie]

I wouldn't be outraged by the name, but I'd worry about how it might affect other people's perception of the person.
On the poll results so far, about 75% of respondents recognise "Lolita" as the young girl in Nabakov's novel. You can be pretty sure that 100% of the perverts who like young girls are in those 75%. (what did I vote? Oops, I thought it was a private poll.)
So, 75% of people who meet a girl called Lolita are going to be reminded of the novel, and some of them will probably treat her differently because of that reminder.

I see nothing wrong with the name, but I would not use it for my daughter (nor for my son).

I'm not a pervert, nor do I like young girls!

[Barry Shnikov]

I'm not a pervert, nor do I like young girls!

In the words of the immortal Joe E. Brown:

"Well, nobody's perfect!"

[Martin]

You can be pretty sure that 100% of the perverts who like young girls are in those 75%.

Cool, I am in the 25%, so I am safe....

Or am I just illiterate?

In the UK, the age of sexual consent for women has been set at 16 since 1885, when campaigners fought to raise it from 13 to prevent child prostitution.

13 year olds were being bought and sent to Europe and beyond... campaigners were looking to stop this trend.

In Burkina Faso, Nigeria, South Korea and Spain, the age is still 13.

[David Bailey]

Cool, I am in the 25%, so I am safe....

Or am I just illiterate?

You're not expected to know who Nabokov is; but then you're not running a website for a large company selling a suite of children's bedroom furniture.

This quote from Woolworths still amazes me:

"What seems to have happened is the staff who run the website had never heard of Lolita, and to be honest no one else here had either. We had to look it up on Wikipedia. But we certainly know who she is now"

There's also an internal email in this article which is interesting:

An internal company e-mail seen by The Times shows a panicked response by senior staff once they came to understand the association. “As discussed, we’ve got the product below on our website. Can it be hidden as soon as is possible? Then I really need to find out how it came about being on our site and who bought it,” the e-mail said.

“Lolita is a word that means sexually active young teenagers, so a young girls’ range of bedroom products is in very poor taste.

The phrase "No S*** Sherlock" springs to mind... The bar for Woolworths website staff seems to be set pretty low if none of them spotted this - certainly forumites seem to be 82% smarter than them.

There's also a wider issue about the general sexualisation of games and toys aimed at young children (young girls, basically). The "Playboy" bedding - sold, hah, by Woolworths still - the Bratz toys, the kids wearing "Porn Star" T-shirts and so on.

Again from that article:

In 2006 Tesco was removed its pole-dancing kit from the toys and games section of its website after it was accused of destroying children’s innocence.

[Tiger Feet]

.. dirty looks from the girl behind the counter, a "knowing smirk" from the guy that served me. Made me mad.

Try buying 'Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves'...was made to feel dirty from the shame...

[Tiger Feet]

There's also a wider issue about the general sexualisation of games and toys aimed at young children (young girls, basically). The "Playboy" bedding - sold, hah, by Woolworths still - the Bratz toys, the kids wearing "Porn Star" T-shirts and so on.

There's also the issue of what kind of parents would buy this stuff for their little girls...little kids, on the whole, don't walk into Woolies and buy their own bedding or toys.

[David Bailey]

There's also the issue of what kind of parents would buy this stuff for their little girls...little kids, on the whole, don't walk into Woolies and buy their own bedding or toys.

Pester power - "All my friends have got one..."

[Tiger Feet]

Pester power - "All my friends have got one..."

My children do that a lot, but I take my job as a parent seriously and feel comfortable, despite the tantrums, to say no.

[Barry Shnikov]

{snip stuff}

I dispute the definition (in the Woolworth's email you quoted) of Lolita as 'sexually active young teenagers'. In my view the better and more common usage would be 'young females likely to interest paedophiles'. It's a function of misguided sexuality of adult males, and I think that's important as it takes the - sting - of the definition away from the young girls.

[David Bailey]

I dispute the definition (in the Woolworth's email you quoted) of Lolita as 'sexually active young teenagers'. In my view the better and more common usage would be 'young females likely to interest paedophiles'. It's a function of misguided sexuality of adult males, and I think that's important as it takes the - sting - of the definition away from the young girls.

Yes - good point.

Woolworths aren't winning any prizes for intelligence at the moment are they?

[batnurse]

I dispute the definition (in the Woolworth's email you quoted) of Lolita as 'sexually active young teenagers'. In my view the better and more common usage would be 'young females likely to interest paedophiles'. It's a function of misguided sexuality of adult males, and I think that's important as it takes the - sting - of the definition away from the young girls.

Well said