Removing returns from beginner routines.

[Billy Cullen]

I am not saying the following is correct or incorrect but the teachers at the local venues I dance at teach the beginners during the 'warm-up' session before the lesson the principles on basic turning and spinning.
ACW = stepping in with left and stepping back with left
CW = stepping in with right and stepping back with right.

They add /remove returns where they feel it is more natural in the routine they are teaching whether it is the beginners or intermediates lesson

Good to hear that the turns and returns are added in the correct places,
do the teachers tell you what foot to go back on, e.g., Catapult, (right) Basket (right) kind of information, in the beginners class or is it your choice what foot you use.

[Gadget]

I'm for teaching individual moves including the return, but spending a bit more time on the "joining" bit showing how the return isn't "dropped" as such - it is just halved and joined into the next move: the next move starts like a return.

In saying that, I would always like to see a return (at beginner's level) at the end of a free-spin, no matter which move was next. It gives the lead and follower a chance to 'reconnect' (eg 'ceroc spin' into catapult I would include a return where Lou and Billy would not)


{Perhaps in saying "remove" my initial post was a bit strongly worded, I think "reduce" would have been better... although it has lead to some ... interesting ... discussion.}

[Billy Cullen]

In saying that, I would always like to see a return (at beginner's level) at the end of a free-spin, no matter which move was next. It gives the lead and follower a chance to 'reconnect' (eg 'ceroc spin' into catapult I would include a return where Lou and Billy would not)

This brings me back to the point of wrong footing, as long as you know that she is on the wrong foot, them it's your choice, but most of the comments have come from the girls who have stated that "it feels wrong" I'm not wanting to go back over all my previous posts regarding this but, I see where you are comming from, and in my view from a teaching perspective I think it is wrong, from a dancers perspective wrong footing the girl is part of the fun, of making her hop, skip, and jump.

[Gadget]

I think that there is more elegance in a "hop skip and jump" as you put it* than a stagger swerve and pull - which is what you get if the follower has over/under turned on the freespin and is off balance and the lead tries to pull them through on a cattapult (without moving themselves as is the beginner's want).
At least with a return in there the off-balance catch turns into a wobbly return that is smoothed by the time the cattapult comes.

(* thinking about it, all that hapens with a "wrong footed" catapult is that the turn becomes a step-turn rather than a turn - in theory this could actually make the catapult smoother because the follower is taking smaller steps to travel the same distance. )

[Billy Cullen]

I think that there is more elegance in a "hop skip and jump" as you put it* than a stagger swerve and pull - which is what you get if the follower has over/under turned on the freespin and is off balance and the lead tries to pull them through on a cattapult (without moving themselves as is the beginner's want).
At least with a return in there the off-balance catch turns into a wobbly return that is smoothed by the time the cattapult comes.

(* thinking about it, all that hapens with a "wrong footed" catapult is that the turn becomes a step-turn rather than a turn - in theory this could actually make the catapult smoother because the follower is taking smaller steps to travel the same distance. )

When did you add the "stagger swerve and Pull" to the "hop skip and jump"
the lady's are not going to like that.

I think your correct it's much better with, a stagger swerve and pull, followed by a stagger to the right one to the left, add your hop skin and jump, and you've got the the perfect beginners class.

[Billy Cullen]

(* thinking about it, all that hapens with a "wrong footed" catapult is that the turn becomes a step-turn rather than a turn - in theory this could actually make the catapult smoother because the follower is taking smaller steps to travel the same distance. )

In theory you are adding an extra step, when only one step is nedded.