Removing returns from beginner routines.

[Gadget]

As well as the 3 move thing on the beginner's routine I have noticed that teachers seem to be removing as many returns as they can between the moves:

In the beginner class, is removing the returns a good or a bad thing?

It removes the definition between "moves" and heads towards a more "movement" orientated dance - which is good IMHO, but I think in the beginner's class the people will learn some 3 move "micro-routines" and go from there into "movements". It glosses over the "moves" step where you can build yourself into your own "micro-routines" or break them down and build your own "moves". I think that it will make the routine harder to learn (but there are only 3 moves now so perhaps it balances out) and make it harder to initially dance freestyle because there is no 'common' divide between moves.

[Martin]

I say keep the returns in, apart from getting the follow back on the correct foot, it provides thinking time for the lead.

[ducasi]

I say keep the returns in, apart from getting the follow back on the correct foot, it provides thinking time for the lead.

It's important both for leaders and followers to get practice in leading and being lead turns.

In the intermediate class though, that's a different matter. The intermediate class I attended on Tuesday was entirely return-less.

[martingold]

It's important both for leaders and followers to get practice in leading and being lead turns.

In the intermediate class though, that's a different matter. The intermediate class I attended on Tuesday was entirely return-less.

also you need the returns to help stop the ladies going dizzy especially in the beginners class

[Twirly]

also you need the returns to help stop the ladies going dizzy especially in the beginners class

with bells on!

I've actually asked leads (where they've held onto my hand in class) to return me in intermediates when I've been getting dizzy (and I get dizzy quite easily in class). Sometimes I just do it by myself if they've let go.

Gotta get that inner ear rebalanced!

[SuzyQ]

I think that if the next move starts with any anticlockwise turning for the lady then you really should remove the return so this applies to

• Catapult
• Ceroc Spin (it is an anticlockwise prep before the spin clockwise)
• Shoulder Drop
• Combs

Think that is it for beginners moves. Otopus strictly starts with an anticlockwise turn for the lady but a return helps with acquiring both hands .

Any other thoughts on this??

SuzyQ

[JiveLad]

Interesting thread - at Berko last Sunday in the beginners, the teacher had a return in then decided we should not do the return - and then towards the end of the class re-introduced it.

(At least that's how I remembered the sequence).

For me, I preferred it with the return in!

There are of course, sometimes situations in class where it feels so natural to do a return at the end of a move and the teacher has to shout "NO RETURN!" - because of the next move........

[Martin]

There is a bit more to this...

And it is about the follower...

When putting a lesson together it is very important, even in an intermediate class, to be aware of the follow's weight ballance (what foot she is on, or where her weight is)

Many male teachers forget this. Coz for the lead it is less important.

Question for the followers.... Have you been to a lesson where returns have been cut out, but you have felt uncomfortable going into the next move?

[Jamie]

The only one I dispise is a return straight into a Cerocspin. It's horrible!

I tend to teach every move with a return in the beginners class because I personally feel beginners need that break inbetween moves, they aren't at a level where returns can influence a dance.

Intermediate routines sometimes have no returns, sometimes they do, it depends entirely on what routine I teach.

I get my demo to lead me through my routine (or Caz if my demo can't lead (very rare I use a demo who can't lead!)) to make sure it flows.

[Billy Cullen]

I say keep the returns in, apart from getting the follow back on the correct foot, it provides thinking time for the lead.

The "turn", and "return" is a major components of the dance, if the teacher has no grasp of the basics in turns and returns when added to the moves or not adding to moves this will result in wrong footing the girl.

One of the basic principles of the "turn" and "return"
Left foot is forward turn left, break (Right) step back left,
to the Right, right foot forward, turn right, break (Left) step back (Right).

From a Change of place to a Catapult you would not add a return. As a return would wrong foot the girl?

The reason for this is the Catapult is back on the (Right), her directional turn is to the (Left) stepping on the left to turn left.
Not stepping (Right) to turn Left.

If she started back (Left) she would be on the wrong foot, then she would have to make a compensating step to get back to the Left to turn Left.

This is basic beginners stuff that all beginners should know.

[Steven666]

It depends. If the next move is, say, a catapult or ceroc spin then the return is pointless.

Otherwise put it in!