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Thread: Listening in class

  1. #21
    Registered User DundeeDancer's Avatar
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    Re: Listening in class

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
    It was a "hell no" why on earth would I tell ladies not to listen to me? I don't teach ladies moves, I teach them how to follow everything that they are lead into.



    I suppose all teachers should be perfect and never get their lefts and rights mixed up then? It's usually female teachers who have more trouble with this than male, but even us guys get it wrong sometimes. We're only human.

    However, getting lefts and rights mixed up is a lot different to teaching technique.
    Was just about to make a joke on how I wasn't listening to you being an instructor and all but hey you've caught my interest.

    How do you manage to teach followers to follow in a normal ceroc class? Do you just talk about it or do you do certain moves that the follower can't anticipate and needs to wait for the lead to give direction on.

    See Twirly that's how you get men to listen and do as there told, you get there interest going

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    Re: Listening in class

    Quote Originally Posted by DundeeDancer View Post
    Was just about to make a joke on how I wasn't listening to you being an instructor and all but hey you've caught my interest.

    How do you manage to teach followers to follow in a normal ceroc class? Do you just talk about it or do you do certain moves that the follower can't anticipate and needs to wait for the lead to give direction on.

    See Twirly that's how you get men to listen and do as there told, you get there interest going
    Yes I do do private lessons, we can discuss payment via PM.

  3. #23
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    Re: Listening in class

    90% of the people in the class are there not because they want to dance really well but because they want to dance adequately enough that they can be in the social company of the opposite sex with the hope of forming a relationship while still having plausable deniability that that is their prime reason.

    So if the majority understand and can put into action the majority of what you are telling them then you should consider that you have done well. Even the really attentive students will miss something, or not fully understand its importance. So in a large class each person will have their own individual gaps in their knowledge. There will be only so much that a MJ teacher from a stage can do to present all the relevant information, in a logical way, at a good pace, with some humour to sweeten the message, and with enough opportunity to put into practice what has been learnt.

    After that it is down to the pupil. If the pupil has been paying attention to the teacher instead of trying to chat up the next person in the class they have made a start. That is just my attitude to classes. Get the learning done and then socialise afterwards.

    Pupils can also help themselves by putting themselves in a position in the class where they can actually see the teacher fully. All too often I can see people making for the back of the hall and then jumping up and down complaining that they can't see what is going on. If you cannot see what is going on then you can take a rotation out so that you can go put yourself in a position where you can see. The followers are sometimes a bit miffed that they are missing out on a run through of the class material but then seem glad that you are then able to lead them through without mangling them because you have cleared up the bits you didn't understand.

    People also seem remarkably reluctant to ask questions of the teacher when they don't understand something. It is no sin to not understand something. You never know the answer you get may be the crucial bit of information that unlocks it all for you.

    Lastly (in a long and rambling post), there is often a great difference between nearly doing something and really doing it. You may think you have got something perfect but there is always someone better than you who can see from the outside something you are not getting quite right. The class teacher is your first port of call to verify what you are doing right and point out what is going wrong. Most people can feel that something in the middle of what they are trying to do just feels awkward - they can feel it is bad but just can't identify what is going wrong. Even international class sportsmen have coaches to help them in this way.

    In summary then.

    Most people don't care about the dancing. It is not their primary aim of being there, socialising is.

    The class is the start of the learning, not the end of it.

    The teacher has a responability to present the information well but they cannot ensure you recieve it, that is down to you.

    Don't bother with people who are not interested in learning. It is a waste of your time and theirs.

  4. #24
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    Re: Listening in class

    I find that the biggest problem is guys that don't get it who carry on talking while you're teaching.

    During the lesson the people who do it wrong stand out like soldiers who are out of step. You can see why they're getting it wrong and give an appropriate tip. The bit that annoys me is when the person who is getting it wrong chats to his partner for the whole time you're giving the tip. Unsurprisingly they get it wrong the next time too.

    I have a little lecture I give from time to time. I try to make it light hearted but the core message is "You might not want to get the move or listen to the teacher, but your partner might want to. Your partner will not hear what I'm saying if you chat to her the whole time I'm teaching. They have paid for a lesson from me and you are preventing them getting what they've paid for."

    No matter how I sugar coat this message it always gets and 'oooh' when I deliver it. Most people know I'm saying it because I care about how well they dance and want to help them to improve. If a guy insists on chatting and is offended by being asked to 'shush' I would rather he stayed away so that he didn't interfere with the learning of others who are keen to improve.

    If guys are chatting who do get the moves I'm quite happy for them to chat. They're showing their partner what it feels like to get the move right, and they're being friendly and sociable. What more could you ask for?

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    Re: Listening in class

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    He did this. The men still didn't do what he was instructing them to do (technique-wise). It wasn't that they hadn't physically heard what he'd said, it just hadn't sunk in - or if it had, they'd chose to ignore it.
    People have filters... and I think a lot of dancers suffer from the 'I already know this' filter (I can't claim to be completely free of it myself ). So when you hear the teacher say something, you aren't thinking about how to apply it - you're thinking about how that's what you're already doing... hence o no additional thought or action appears to be required. It's a beguiling and comfortably complacent state of mind - and, of course, it means that if you're in that state, you will learn absolutely nothing, and might as well not bother with the lesson. I think both men and women suffer from this - but yes - men are the worst offenders. I'm not sure why.

    I'm not sure what the best way of dealing with it is - it's hard to diplomatically get people out of this way of thinking. Perhaps the best attempt I've seen was by Gary Boon, who asked in the middle of a lesson how many leaders had 'got' the move we were doing. When half the leaders in the room stuck their hands up, he said something along the lines of: 'Well listen up, because this next bit applies to YOU' - and repeated what everyone was doing wrong and how to correct it. Unfortunately, I think many still didn't bother applying what was said to themselves.

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    Re: Listening in class

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    90% of the people in the class are there not because they want to dance really well but because they want to dance adequately enough that they can be in the social company of the opposite sex with the hope of forming a relationship while still having plausable deniability that that is their prime reason.
    Evidence for this statement? Or was it ever so slightly tongue in cheek?

  7. #27
    Registered User DundeeDancer's Avatar
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    Re: Listening in class

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
    Yes I do do private lessons, we can discuss payment via PM.
    Cool will PM you later about me pimping you out to the many lovely ladies in Edinburgh who are in need of your services.

    DD

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    Re: Listening in class

    i confess... i get bored with the same format yadeya of the class. my brain switches off and i would rather quietly chat!oops i know i should n't and i think it is really rude to chat when the teacher is talking but just can't seem to help it! so apologies to all my male (and female) leads in the class if they have missed vital information!
    that said if i dance with someone who is struggling i don't chat and do try and help...without compromising thier leading skills...i think!

  9. #29
    Registered User killingtime's Avatar
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    Re: Listening in class

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
    Yes I do do private lessons, we can discuss payment via PM.
    Ooh, ooh. I want a private with you Jamie . However I doubt we'd get a chance at Southport (given you aren't their as a teacher) and I don't know when next we'll be around the same weekender .

  10. #30
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    Re: Listening in class

    Quote Originally Posted by JiveLad View Post
    Evidence for this statement? Or was it ever so slightly tongue in cheek?
    What objective peer reviewed evidence could I present?

    It is just my feeling based on 8 years of talking to other people in the general classes and making the following observations.

    They tell me that that are not there with the sole purpose of meeting someone else but that if it happens during the course of events then it would be nice (as I did when I started). Most of them disappear from the dance scene when they find someone and then return again a year to 18 months later when their relationship ends. A great number seem to have taken up dancing after the break up of a relationship (as I did when I started) and see it as a means of enlarging their social circle rather than an overpowering desire to dance.

    It always seems that the leaders (since the followers have to rotate around the class) that followers complain about to me are the ones that are always chatting up the followers when the teacher is talking and/or making a bee line to the back of the class and then complaining that they cannot see.

    Hearing lots of people who week after week tell me how they want to get really good at dancing but will not consider actually doing something about it other than going to the same class week after week and making the same mistakes, won't listen to the teacher year after year and expect different results each time they do the same thing.

    So my statement is anecdotal and subjective as it has to be, only based on my impression of the things I have encountered while averaging 4 nights a week of dancing over the last 8 years.

    I cannot claim it is the truth - just my impression from the point of view as an ordinary punter.

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    Re: Listening in class

    I have attended a teaching workshop put on by Martin,
    the point that stood out most, and that seems to be most relevant here,
    is keep the bits of information small...often I see a teacher trying to cover a huge wallop of information in one hit,.., most often I will listen to the first 20 to 30 seconds then the rest just passes me by,..
    Also be aware that different people in your classes will learn differently...I would drive my High school teachers nuts as a visual-kinesthetic learner..I have memories of one class where by the time the teacher had finished verbally describing the problems he had written on the board I had solved the three of them, and given the answers,(Then he asked for the proofs as well)..ooops,
    It couild be that in some cases some of your students are bored because you have only taught to part of the class!

  12. #32
    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: Listening in class

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    And what amazes you about that... unless of course we ban everyone from classes who have been dancing more than 2 years!
    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    I wouldn't go if fellow dancers weren't sociable...
    which is why i said purely ie the males are there just because there are ladies there etc

  13. #33
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    Re: Listening in class

    I can only speak for myself. During classes, my brain is flitting between a variety of different areas, principally:

    1. Applying technique that the teacher is talking about.
    2. Applying technique that the teacher is demonstrating but not talking about.
    3. Applying technique that some other teacher has talked to me about.
    4. Leading the right moves in the right order.
    5. Fixing problems I see myself in the way I'm dancing the moves.
    6. Socialising.

    The first one of these subjects is often the least important and useful for me, so it frequently gets sacrificed so I can spend more brain-time on the others.

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