Aliens vs a Higher Power!

[Dreadful Scathe]

It's possible - admittedly only barely - to have an opinion that Earth is the only planet to have developed intelligent life.

hmmm it is? to quote Eric Idle : "pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space cause theres bugger all down here on earth"

[Barry Shnikov]

You keep telling yourself that Barry.

Well, personally I hardly look at any mags at all, apart from: whatever happens to be at the doctor's surgery (usually Cosmo or the like, bleagh!) and the Mail on Sunday magazine if I happen to be at my Dad's.

I will occasionally buy a New Scientist or Private Eye.

And the RT at Christmas.

And the Lawyer or the Estates Gazette, when I find one lying around.

...um... so that's all.

[TA Guy]

Christianity is pretty explicit about what was created/finished on the 6th day. It doesn't leave much room for aliens.
Then again the bible is pretty explicit about lots of things which are complete rubbish. I think if you can live with the earth being 6000 years old and flat as the bible would have you believe, you can live with a few aliens popping in from time to time...

[Ghost]

earth being 6000 years old and flat as the bible would have you believe

Flat? Where about does it say the earth is flat in the Bible?

[Double Trouble]

Oh, boy, are you ever out of date.

How dare you...! and who the hell are you calling a boy?

How quaint that you think it's perverts who look at girly mags.

But perverts do look at girly mags. I didn't say only perverts.

sex with animals while wearing rubber underwear and covered in trifle.

Has Gav been speaking to you.

It's possible - admittedly only barely - to have an opinion that Earth is the only planet to have developed intelligent life.[/B].

Pants...!

Flat? Where about does it say the earth is flat in the Bible?

Durr...! It clearly states - verse 1 chapter 4 "God said the Earth is proper flat, innit"

[Barry Shnikov]

Flat? Where about does it say the earth is flat in the Bible?

Where does the bit about the 'four corners of the earth' come from? Is that just a hymn?

[Barry Shnikov]

But perverts do look at girly mags. I didn't say only perverts.

No; I said that the perverts aren't looking at girly mags at all. Scantily clad and even naked hotties isn't going to do anything for perves.

As I said, no trifle!

[Double Trouble]

No; I said that the perverts aren't looking at girly mags at all. Scantily clad and even naked hotties isn't going to do anything for perves.

You can be a pervert and still fancy women can't you? So they might be looking at "Rodger the Horse" one minute and "Sexy ladies 90 years +" the next then "Lovely Jubblies" after that.

Anyway....aliens.

[Ghost]

Where does the bit about the 'four corners of the earth' come from? Is that just a hymn?

Revelation 7 apparently

"After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree."

I think it's generally accepted that Revelation is filled with metaphor. Quite frankly how else is someone of that era going to explain now, let alone the future. Four corners at that time would have presuambly have meant North, South, East and West ie everywhere

[Dreadful Scathe]

I think it's generally accepted that Revelation is filled with metaphor. Quite frankly how else is someone of that era going to explain now, let alone the future. Four corners at that time would have presuambly have meant North, South, East and West ie everywhere

well of course, thaaaaats what it meant there are other bits of the bible that aren't metaphor, but how do you keep track ?

[Ghost]

well of course, thaaaaats what it meant there are other bits of the bible that aren't metaphor, but how do you keep track ?

I actually think I have come up with a way to explain the organisation structure using the Ottoman empire as a model. It gets a little confusing around this bit here, but one has to start somewhere.

As a beginning....

Could this person at this time actually explain this concept without using metaphor?

Have they used words / phrases that were symbolic to the people they were talking to?


Of course you could just go and talk to people who actually study it...

[Dreadful Scathe]

Of course you could just go and talk to people who actually study it...

Isn't it more rewarding to ask people who don't have their excuses ready? They need to think more and they don't drown me in an escalation of quoted and scriptured irrelevance

[Barry Shnikov]

You can be a pervert and still fancy women can't you? So they might be looking at "Rodger the Horse" one minute and "Sexy ladies 90 years +" the next then "Lovely Jubblies" after that.

Anyway....aliens.

...scantily clad, appearing on the covers of many 1950s trash mags (Astounding tales, etc) all looked remarkably like human females.

The male aliens looked like a cross between Cyril Smith and an octopus...

[MartinHarper]

Wikipedia has some information on Flat Earth beliefs in the early Christian Church.

I was wondering if, should the existence of extra terrestrial life be proved, would this completely shatter religion in all it's forms?

That's not really enough of an opener to have a discussion. How would the existence of extra-terrestrial life shatter religion in all its forms? Please provide examples showing the incompatibility between each of the following types of religion and the existence of extra-terrestrial life: Christian, Buddhist, and Syncretic.

[TA Guy]

Flat? Where about does it say the earth is flat in the Bible?

There are actually quite a few references to the earth being flat in the bible, of them all, the four corners one is the most famous. Truth be told, all of them can be rationalized as metaphor.

I suppose the literacy levels of the time would include relatively sophisticated devices like metaphors, tho why so many should be included in such an (supposedly) important book is an interesting question. Then again, these metaphors seemed to spring miraculously into existance every time something in the bible appears to be proved likely to be wrong. Bit miraculous in itself that!

[Ghost]

I suppose the literacy levels of the time would include relatively sophisticated devices like metaphors, tho why so many should be included in such an (supposedly) important book is an interesting question.

Using metaphors is a fairly common tool for teachers. If I took everything Amir says literally, Jango would be a very interesting experience indeed

Both Judaism and for example Buddhism make use of numbers, colours etc to represent things. The Tao Te Ching is pretty much only metaphors. Given that the Bible had to make sense to the Jews, I'd actually be surprised if it didn't include metaphors. The Important Stuff is pretty clear though - 10 Commandements, Love God, Love your Neighbour, Love Yourself.

Jesus pretty much taught exclusively in parables to the public.

JMS pretty much nailed it in "Meditations on the Abyss"

"What is truth and what is God?"
"If I take a lamp and shine toward the wall, a bright spot will appear on the wall. The lamp is our search for truth, for understanding. Too often we assume the light on the wall is god. But the light is not the goal of the search, it is the result of the search. The more intense the search, the brighter the light on the wall. The brighter the light on the wall, the greater the revelation upon seeing it. Similarly, someone who does not search, who does not bring a lantern with him, sees nothing. What we perceive as God is the by produce of our search for god. It may simply be an appreciation of the light, pure and unblemished. Not understanding that it comes from us. Sometimes, we stand in front of the light and assume we are the center of the universe. God looks astonishingly like we do or turn to look at our shadow and assume all is darkness. If we allow ourselves to get in the way, we defeat the purpose, which is use the light of our search to illuminate the wall in all its beauty and all it flaws. And in so doing better understand the world around us."
"Ah, yes, but what is truth and what is God?"
"[sigh] Truth is a .. river."
"And what is God?"
"God is .. the mouth of the river."
- Narn Acolyte and G'Kar

The look on G'Kar's face is priceless

[David Bailey]

Now Im not talking about finding an Ameoba on Mars. That is too easy for the average person to dismiss as nonsense or not important enough.

I disagree. Clear and uncontroversial evidence of extraterrestrial life would be a Big Thing. OK, not so much an impact as them blowing up the White House or whatever, but it'd still be one of the most important discoveries in human history.

Now Im not particularly religious so I cant comment but I wondered if there were any writings that could stand up to such an occurence or whether that would be it. End of religion?

Reputedly, the Catholic Church does have general guidelines on what their reaction would be in those circumstances - they've come a long way from burning Giordano Bruno at the stake in the 16th century, when he stated that other stars would have solar systems...

I imagine most large governments and the UN similarly have guidelines. Although I imagine the guidelines would be close to useless in a real aliens-in-flying-saucers situation.

[Tessalicious]

There are actually quite a few references to the earth being flat in the bible, of them all, the four corners one is the most famous. Truth be told, all of them can be rationalized as metaphor.

I would have thought it more sensible to assume that they can all be rationalised by remembering that the actual words of the bible were written by people (whatever you believe about it being the transmission of God, this is still the case) and that none of them had travelled far enough out of their own back yard to discover that the sea doesn't flow in a waterfall off the side...

Personally, I'm always quite amazed that anyone was prepared to travel on the sea while that still seemed like a possibility!

[Beowulf]

whatever you believe about it being the transmission of God

"Hi You're listening to GOD FM broadcasting live from heaven to your brain. Today we discuss commandments, some focus groups say there should be 8 , some say 12. In our live pray-in we'll be putting this question to you. That's right after this short commercial break.

<jingle>GOD FM.. Dogma radio..</Jingle>


Troubled by loud noisy neighbours? Worried about the crime rate? Kept awake by drunken revellers at the nearby brothel? Well you need new improved Gomorrah-B-Gone ! now 76% more holy !! From the same people that brought you Sayonara-Sodam and Pillar-o-salt kitchen condiments "


Ok I'm going to hell for that one..

[Barry Shnikov]

"Hi You're listening to GOD FM broadcasting live from heaven to your brain. Today we discuss commandments, some focus groups say there should be 8 , some say 12. In our live pray-in we'll be putting this question to you. That's right after this short commercial break.

<jingle>GOD FM.. Dogma radio..</Jingle>


Troubled by loud noisy neighbours? Worried about the crime rate? Kept awake by drunken revellers at the nearby brothel? Well you need new improved Gomorrah-B-Gone ! now 76% more holy !! From the same people that brought you Sayonara-Sodam and Pillar-o-salt kitchen condiments "


Ok I'm going to hell for that one..

See you there.

(I thought the phrase 'transmission of god' was something to do with transport - you know, the bit between the engine and the wheels...)