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Thread: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

  1. #21
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    Re: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    The alien civilisation would have to be significantly more advanced than our own to do this: there's an article on Space.com about Listening for ET's Television, which explains the difficulties. Seth also makes a significant point:



    Also regarding your question: unless there are intelligent aliens within our Solar System, none of them are going to be "a practical distance from Earth". Even our furthest out space probe, Voyager 1, has travelled only 1/2500th of the way to even the nearest star (which it's not aimed at anyway).
    This requires deeper thought. Apologies if I sent you on the wrong track by my flippant phrasing.

    Even if every single TV and radio program was delivered exclusively by cable as from tomorrow, there would still be vigorous quantities of electromagnetic radiation - um - radiating out from earth. GPS, telecommunications, radio beacons, communication with passenger airliners and ships, radio-generating manufacturing and construction processes, communications with the space station and the Shuttle, and the Mars explorer, and Cassini - well, it's a long list.

    Your point about Voyager is mistaken; first, it's travelling at a snail's pace compared to EM, and second, it set out about 60 years after radio transmissions began. The human EM bubble would be 90 light years in radius by now.

  2. #22
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    Re: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    This requires deeper thought. Apologies if I sent you on the wrong track by my flippant phrasing.

    Even if every single TV and radio program was delivered exclusively by cable as from tomorrow, there would still be vigorous quantities of electromagnetic radiation - um - radiating out from earth. GPS, telecommunications, radio beacons, communication with passenger airliners and ships, radio-generating manufacturing and construction processes, communications with the space station and the Shuttle, and the Mars explorer, and Cassini - well, it's a long list.
    Some of the examples you're quoting seem a bit odd. Many are focussed transmission, such as those to space probes, as opposed to the general unfocussed broadcasts from TV transmitters. Unless the aliens were in line with the focus area, they're even less likely to pick them up than the TV broadcasts. It'd be like trying to see a torch shining at an angle 90 degrees away from you, from 100 yards away. Others, such as GPS, are actually not very powerful, coming from orbital satellites as they are.
    Seth's point is that the number of powerful general broadcast EM signals humanity produces is diminishing. So the point still stands - you'd need better than current human technology to find it.

    SETI basically relies on an alien species pumping out a powerful signal aimed squarely at the Sol system, on the basis that a) their space telescopes and gravity wobble analysis have determined the existence of a rocky planet, with water, in the parent star's comfort zone; and b) we're in the correct time window to detect it.

    Read the answer to the question "Can you give some idea, in layman's terms, what kind of signals you could possibly detect, for example, how close would ET civilisations have to be in order for us to detect signals like TV transmissions?" on this SETI Q&A
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Your point about Voyager is mistaken; first, it's travelling at a snail's pace compared to EM, and second, it set out about 60 years after radio transmissions began. The human EM bubble would be 90 light years in radius by now.
    My point about Voyager is not mistaken , on my interpretation of your use of the word "practical". I was taking it as meaning "aliens who could visit us to follow up on the EM signals, or vice versa". Human prospects for visiting other star systems are very dim at the moment.
    Last edited by Stuart M; 17th-January-2008 at 01:03 PM. Reason: tidied up bit on SETI

  3. #23
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    Re: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    Some of the examples you're quoting seem a bit odd. Many are focussed transmission, such as those to space probes, as opposed to the general unfocussed broadcasts from TV transmitters. Unless the aliens were in line with the focus area, they're even less likely to pick them up than the TV broadcasts. It'd be like trying to see a torch shining at an angle 90 degrees away from you, from 100 yards away. Others, such as GPS, are actually not very powerful, coming from orbital satellites as they are.
    Seth's point is that the number of powerful general broadcast EM signals humanity produces is diminishing. So the point still stands - you'd need better than current human technology to find it.

    SETI basically relies on an alien species pumping out a powerful signal aimed squarely at the Sol system, on the basis that a) their space telescopes and gravity wobble analysis have determined the existence of a rocky planet, with water, in the parent star's comfort zone; and b) we're in the correct time window to detect it.

    Read the answer to the question "Can you give some idea, in layman's terms, what kind of signals you could possibly detect, for example, how close would ET civilisations have to be in order for us to detect signals like TV transmissions?" on this SETI Q&A

    My point about Voyager is not mistaken , on my interpretation of your use of the word "practical". I was taking it as meaning "aliens who could visit us to follow up on the EM signals, or vice versa". Human prospects for visiting other star systems are very dim at the moment.
    Visit, yes. I see your point. But I had been discussing 'interaction', which could happen at a distance. With a big time lag.

    Ever read John Varley's The Ophiuch hotline? One of my favourites.

  4. #24
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    Re: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

    Hmmm interesting thread. I think if there are other life forms billions of light years away from us, by the time any signals have reached us, this planet will be non existant the way we're treating it.

    By the way Paul, I've seen Signs myself. Well, not those type of signs! I am sane you know. It's a very creepy film.... especially when that guy is sat in the cupboard watching the live news and sees an alien quickly creep out the corner of the school yard behind those kids! He even starts screaming at the TV!
    Last edited by Donna; 17th-January-2008 at 02:00 PM.

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    Re: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

    Quote Originally Posted by Donna View Post
    He even starts screaming at the TV!
    Blimey, I do that when there's nothing more unpleasant on screen than politicians.





    ....that's a bad thing, right?

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    Re: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Visit, yes. I see your point. But I had been discussing 'interaction', which could happen at a distance. With a big time lag.

    Ever read John Varley's The Ophiuch hotline? One of my favourites.
    Civilised debate and discourse - let's hope the aliens aren't listening or they'll get the wrong idea*

    No, I haven't read it. Would like to, but the opportunities to sit down with a good book are limited these days.

    *shudders at implications for humanity, if all an alien race picked up was a wireless broadband transmission of the Ceroc Scotland Forum. Strictly Galaxy Quest, anyone?

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    Re: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    No, I haven't read it. Would like to, but the opportunities to sit down with a good book are limited these days.
    I find that sort of comment hilarious when coming from someone who reads and posts on a forum. What you mean is you'd rather interact and write pointless crap on here than read a good book, surely?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    *shudders at implications for humanity, if all an alien race picked up was a wireless broadband transmission of the Ceroc Scotland Forum. Strictly Galaxy Quest, anyone?
    Imagine...! Maybe that's why we don't see too many aliens around these parts. They take one look at the ceroc forum and don't even stop off for a fag break.

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    Re: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    I find that sort of comment hilarious when coming from someone who reads and posts on a forum. What you mean is you'd rather interact and write pointless crap on here than read a good book, surely?
    Well, I can post away on the Forum at work, without looking too suspicious. Opening up my copy of "I Am Legend" at my desk, on the other hand, may attract attention

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    Re: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    Well, I can post away on the Forum at work, without looking too suspicious.
    I'm not allowed to go on the forum at work any more, apart from lunch times. If they catch me on here again they are going to sack me. They think thats a deterrent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    Opening up my copy of "I Am Legend" at my desk, on the other hand, may attract attention
    You could do what perverts with a girly mag do. *Hide your book in a copy of The Times or something.

    *maybe you already hide your girly mags in your copy of I am Legend

  10. #30
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    Re: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Blimey, I do that when there's nothing more unpleasant on screen than politicians.





    ....that's a bad thing, right?
    Er.. no.

  11. #31
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    Re: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    You could do what perverts with a girly mag do. *Hide your book in a copy of The Times or something.
    I think perhaps its the "reading whilst you are supposed to be working" thats not allowed, rather than a management review on a book by book, or newspaper basis. Or perhaps you were thinking management had a list of "approved time wasting periodicals". I bet Ray Bradburys works would be on it

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    Re: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    You could do what perverts with a girly mag do. *Hide your book in a copy of The Times or something.
    In the crew room I used to have to hide my copy of the Times inside girly mags

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    Re: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    "approved time wasting periodicals".
    We have those at my office. We are allowed to read the Crystal Services Security News Letter and Hygiene Today Monthly.

    I love my job.

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    Re: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    You could do what perverts with a girly mag do. *Hide your book in a copy of The Times or something.
    Oh, boy, are you ever out of date.

    How quaint that you think it's perverts who look at girly mags. Half the entertainment industry is geared towards packaging pictures of scantily clad ersatz-celebs for spotty youths to look at.

    The pervs are on internet chat rooms discussing - damn, I wish I could remember the phrase, have to make up my own - sex with animals while wearing rubber underwear and covered in trifle.

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    Re: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    We have those at my office. We are allowed to read the Crystal Services Security News Letter and Hygiene Today Monthly.
    Wow - "How to use a sponge".

    Incidentally, did you know that the acronym GSOH you often see in personal ads actually stands for "Good Standard of Hygiene" and not "Good Sense of Humour" as some would have you believe. It came from the days when showers weren't that common.

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    Re: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    How quaint that you think it's perverts who look at girly mags.
    You keep telling yourself that Barry.

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    Re: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    The pervs are on internet chat rooms discussing - damn, I wish I could remember the phrase, have to make up my own - sex with animals while wearing rubber underwear and covered in trifle.

    Exactly what sort of trifle ? I want to know if I'm a pervert or not.

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    Re: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Incidentally, did you know that the acronym GSOH you often see in personal ads actually stands for "Good Standard of Hygiene" and not "Good Sense of Humour" as some would have you believe. It came from the days when showers weren't that common.
    Your knowledge of personal ads is...err...what's the word I'm looking for?


    Oh yeah...it's understandable.

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    Re: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Your knowledge of personal ads is...err...what's the word I'm looking for?


    Oh yeah...it's understandable.
    i'll have you know I met someone who introduced me to Ceroc and went on to marry a bigamist paedophile through personal ads. So don't knock em.

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    Re: Aliens vs a Higher Power!

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Believe in aliens? You make it sound like there is a choice. Are you saying you don't believe.
    It's possible - admittedly only barely - to have an opinion that Earth is the only planet to have developed intelligent life.

    The Drake Equation seems to indicate that there are several other alien civilisations at the moment in the galaxy. But it's only a theory.

    But Christianity says nothing about aliens - so it wouldn't be invalidated by their presence. James Blish addressed this quite well in A Case Of Conscience.

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