3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

[Gus]

OK ... Found a Ceroc venue I wasn't banned from (), got there well in time to do the beginners class .. to find there was 4 moves (). Got through the who,le lesson but there seemed to be a fair few variations from my old CTA training. This odd warm-up thing, stepping on the spot ... not sure it worked ... caused more confusion than clarity. There was more practicing to music ... a good thing ... but where were the key points? I thought that was where we tried to help the more experienced beginners. The more I think about what I've heard and read on the Forum ... is there less central control over what MUST be taught and the format or are there just some local anomalies?

[Beowulf]

In the beginners class last night there were a number of absolute beginners. After the 1st move they were amused, the second bemused and the third confused.

One of the dancers actually said to me that she doubted she'd ever be able to remember all the moves. In the beginners review class we spent a lot of time going over the three moves individually and we could really concentrate on each move and identify problems (I say "we" I mean the Taxi dancers not me.. I was being a "beginner" again.. for about the 5th time now )

An extra move would have (a) confused the beginners even more, and (b) meant we would have had less time on each move to iron out the problems.

Surely 3 moves done well are better than 4 moves done not so well? I found the three moves thing a great idea.. and by the end of the beginners review the beginners were actually beginning to smile.. and lose the panicked worried expression they had when they started

and no .. I have NO inclinations to EVER be a taxi (that would mean having to go to class regularly )

Not suggesting we drop to one move a night.. but conversely no -one would suggest a 12 move class either.. after all that's why they have the intensive beginner workshops.

I think this can only give beginners a better foothold in dancing and can only benefit us all in the long run.

[tsh]

The chances are those that dont get 4 beginners moves would not get 3 either especially as the one left out last night (our first time with three moves only) was the back pass when the teacher taught the armjive swizzle, the octopus and the first move push spin all hard moves to teach to a brand new beginner apart from the backpass which as we all know is a simple change sides and change hand behind the back

So they don't loose any moves, but they get a bit more time to focus on the 3 real moves that would have been taught. You really don't get the concept that teaching can be more than demo and copy, do you? The last ceroc beginners class I watched was utter chaos - I don't see this change making that worse, so it must be a good thing!

[martingold]

Wrong!!

The beginners class is designed for complete beginners - those who are brand new to Ceroc so they can learn how to dance! Ceroc is all about opening up the dancefloor to those who never in their wildest dreams thought they'd ever learn how to dance.

Wrong!

I like the 3 move system because it works, I've taught at various venues using the new 3 move system in class and it works, you can see the beginners getting it more and more, the smile on their face tells a thousand words, much more than you can see on the floor, from on stage, I can see everyone who is getting it and who is struggling, even those beginners who couldn't step back in time with the music in the warm up can keep up with the 3 move routine.

Oh and the whole "don't need to work as hard"... Give me a break

Sing a new tune Martin, this ones getting old.

i rest my case

[JiveLad]

i rest my case

At Berko on Sunday, I experienced the '3 move beginners class' for the first time.

My previous posts were all for it......however, after the experience, it did feel slightly 'unbalanced'. In order for it to work, the teacher had to introduce and left-right hand swap for leads on the final move, to do the link back to the beginning. So maybe it was just that sequence - but there is something about the symmetry/order of 4 moves which appeals.

The REALLY good thing is that one of the moves each week will be a repeat/carryover from the previous week (that is one thing I had pushed for in my 'manifesto' many moons ago....).

Overall - on reflection, I support the changes - and especially for the Intermediates as well: at Watford Moonglow on Tuesday the 3 move Intermediate class was great!

[Keefy]

My previous posts were all for it......however, after the experience, it did feel slightly 'unbalanced'. In order for it to work, the teacher had to introduce and left-right hand swap for leads on the final move, to do the link back to the beginning. So maybe it was just that sequence - but there is something about the symmetry/order of 4 moves which appeals.

Time to dig up this old thread Is anybody still doing three move classes? Ceroc Metro tried it for a while but we've been back on four moves for quite a while now.

[Steven666]

Nantwich never moved to three! :p

[bigdjiver]

Time to dig up this old thread Is anybody still doing three move classes? Ceroc Metro tried it for a while but we've been back on four moves for quite a while now.

Ceroc Central is, at least in my locality. Ceroc should know what effect it has on beginner retention from database statistics. If they have done the analysis then, since some franchises are doing it one way, some another, I assume it has made no difference to retention stats.

or they have not done the work.

[martingold]

Time to dig up this old thread Is anybody still doing three move classes? Ceroc Metro tried it for a while but we've been back on four moves for quite a while now.

As someone who was completely opposed to the three move beginners class i have to say when adam was back in the uk a couple of wks ago he taught three moves BUT it didnt stop there he also made the class interesting by working very hard at it

Some teachers are still teaching three moves in metro one of which makes it very boring for the whole class inc the first timers as the teacher in question hasnt changed the way the moves are taught in any way shape or form so it just drags out longer.

I am opposed to that teacher teaching three moves however having seen adam teach it with his enthusiasm and teaching skill i can see why some can make it interesting especially as now the taxis are not allowed to teach anything to anyone we can only practice with the beginners so we cant make sure that they get the moves.
The second begginers session is now purely a practice session not a review class

[Keefy]

As someone who was completely opposed to the three move beginners class i have to say when adam was back in the uk a couple of wks ago he taught three moves BUT it didnt stop there he also made the class interesting by working very hard at it

Anything that Adam teaches is interesting But I didn't like the three move system either because it was either pointlessly padded or too shallow.

...as now the taxis are not allowed to teach anything to anyone we can only practice with the beginners so we cant make sure that they get the moves. The second begginers session is now purely a practice session not a review class

Now that is (excuse me...) a bl00dy stupid diktat. Forget whether three or four moves will help retention, what helps retention is people LEARNING. I used to really look forward to the review session when I was learning, if anything it was better than the main class as you were with fellow beginners and you got specific one-to-one assistance if you needed it.

It's interesting that three moves lives on, I wonder which will win out in the end?

[David Bailey]

It was 3 moves in Chesham last night, and I'm sure that Berko also has 3 - so Chilterns uses the 3-move thing.

[Dreadful Scathe]

As someone who was completely opposed to the three move beginners class i have to say when adam was back in the uk a couple of wks ago he taught three moves BUT it didnt stop there he also made the class interesting by working very hard at it

So the 3 move class is ok if the teacher works hard ? Conclusion: Only Adam works hard

Some teachers are still teaching three moves in metro one of which makes it very boring for the whole class inc the first timers as the teacher in question hasnt changed the way the moves are taught in any way shape or form so it just drags out longer.

So poor teaching then? 3 moves should always be better as the teacher can concentrate on what they want to teach and not feel they are rushing to get 4 moves together. It sounds to me like you are opposed to 3 moves because you have poor teachers down there who cannot add any value with the extra time they have from one less move - and you only really noticed this when Adam turned up and you could compare. Am I wrong ?

The second begginers session is now purely a practice session not a review class

This is good surely, what ultimate benefit do you get in re-doing a class you have just done? I always treated review classes as a way to make sure a beginner did at least one thing very well, not learn moves by rote

[Keefy]

...and what did Ceroc Metro do at Bishops Stortford last night? Three moves I'm sure James did it just to prove me wrong

[Jan in Notts]

Missed the beginner's class at my local ceroc venue last night but it must have been a 3 move class as I danced with a beginner during the freestyle and it was a very long 3 minutes with just the same three moves again and again and again and again........

Before anyone asks whether I remember what it was like to be a beginner, I do, which is why I smiled encouragingly and complimented him on getting his handhold right - hope that didn't sound as patronising when I said it as it does when I read it back.

[Gojive]

We moved to the 3 move format at Staines last night.

Apart from the magnified repetiveness of doing only 3 moves with beginners, the other thing that struck me was that when doing the moves twice through (in fact we even did three and four times through at one point), I kept thinking I'd messed up and missed something out!

So my first reaction as a Taxi Dancer to this new format, is a little mixed at the moment. It's a little more tiring on us, but at the same time, I can see how some leaders may find it easier to string together and remember just 3 moves. I'll try and get some feedback from beginners over the next few weeks.

So open minded on this one for now...

ps DB - We started with a Yo-Yo last night

[Gojive]

We moved to the 3 move format at Staines last night.

Apart from the magnified repetiveness of doing only 3 moves with beginners, the other thing that struck me was that when doing the moves twice through (in fact we even did three and four times through at one point), I kept thinking I'd messed up and missed something out!

So my first reaction as a Taxi Dancer to this new format, is a little mixed at the moment. It's a little more tiring on us, but at the same time, I can see how some leaders may find it easier to string together and remember just 3 moves. I'll try and get some feedback from beginners over the next few weeks.

So open minded on this one for now...

ps DB - We started with a Yo-Yo last night

Well that only lasted a week thankfully ....the downside is, I have to oversee 4 rather than 3 moves when I take the beginners practice session tonight. Be careful what you wish for I guess!

[emmylou25]

CerocOxford changed to 3 moves for both beginners and intermediate back in January, and are still doing this.

Seems to work as beginners do seem to remember the moves (that night at least), but it does mean that the beginners practise session gets more repetitive and tedious for beginners who're now getting the moves better during the main class.

The only worry we have is for beginners who struggle to learn moves and remember them from week to week. With 4 moves a night they were always going to have covered all 19 moves over the 6 weeks given as a usual time for being a beginner. Now with 3 moves, where moves are repeated several times in that 6 weeks they may not have covered all 19 before they think they're ready to move up to intermediates. Some people are therefore struggling in the move up to intermediates, which has meant some changes in the way the intermediate class is taught, and a few trial formats which are being started in a couple of venues to try and get new intermediates more confident in moving quickly through an improver level to intermediate without being scared off.

The 3 moves does seem to work for intermediates especially in venues where there're people who used to give up after 3 moves...now they stick out the full 3 and you see them trying the moves in freestyle more than when there were 4 being taught.

[David Bailey]

Seems to work as beginners do seem to remember the moves (that night at least), but it does mean that the beginners practise session gets more repetitive and tedious for beginners who're now getting the moves better during the main class.

So are you not allowed to add technique tips and stuff during the review class then?

The only worry we have is for beginners who struggle to learn moves and remember them from week to week. With 4 moves a night they were always going to have covered all 19 moves over the 6 weeks given as a usual time for being a beginner. Now with 3 moves, where moves are repeated several times in that 6 weeks they may not have covered all 19 before they think they're ready to move up to intermediates.

Heh, classic case of treating the symptom not the disease

Seriously, the problem is not the moves, it's the 6-weeks thing. And where you have a system which states that a person who's learnt 19 moves is an intermediate, well, there are so many things wrong with that system I don't know where to start...

If Ceroc changed 6 weeks to (at least) 12 weeks, that'd really help people develop their dancing, I'm sure. Ceroc Scotland recommend 12 weeks, don't they?

The 3 moves does seem to work for intermediates especially in venues where there're people who used to give up after 3 moves...now they stick out the full 3 and you see them trying the moves in freestyle more than when there were 4 being taught.

Excellent.

Again, I think 3 moves is a good step forwards, and to Ceroc for making this change - it's a positive move, and also a gutsy one because it could lose them business in the short term. So they're doing it to promote dancing, despite a risk of a commercial cost - good for them.

[Gadget]

So are you not allowed to add technique tips and stuff during the review class then?

Yes; they can give advice and tips, but they can't teach those peices of advice - they are just reviewing the moves and going over what has already been taught. Any additional information given while doing this is personal advice from an experianced dancer; not any teaching

At least that's how I understand it - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

[martingold]

the beginners practise session gets more repetitive and tedious for beginners who're now getting the moves better during the main class.

The only worry we have is for beginners who struggle to learn moves and remember them from week to week. With 4 moves a night they were always going to have covered all 19 moves over the 6 weeks given as a usual time for being a beginner. Now with 3 moves, where moves are repeated several times in that 6 weeks they may not have covered all 19 before they think they're ready to move up to intermediates. Some people are therefore struggling in the move up to intermediates,

Well that only lasted a week thankfully ....the downside is, I have to oversee 4 rather than 3 moves when I take the beginners practice session tonight. Be careful what you wish for I guess!

The three move thing should be dependent on the stats when the class starts in an evening
it has something to do with the percentage of 6 weekers to dancers who are more experienced

So are you not allowed to add technique tips and stuff during the review class then?

no such thing as a review class anymore (since about january) its now the practice session and taxi dancers are not insured to teach therefore we are not allowed to (we can help though )

Seriously, the problem is not the moves, it's the 6-weeks thing. And where you have a system which states that a person who's learnt 19 moves is an intermediate,

If Ceroc changed 6 weeks to (at least) 12 weeks, that'd really help people develop their dancing,

i couldn't agree more either that or have an improver class which is a step up (they could teach the pretzel )

Again, I think 3 moves is a good step forwards, and to Ceroc for making this change - it's a positive move,

This is seriously only any good if the teacher uses the extra time to teach a bit of style or technique which really makes it teacher dependent

So they're doing it to promote dancing, despite a risk of a commercial cost - good for them.

which is as far as i have seen always the ceroc way its about being a passion rather than a purely a business