View Poll Results: 3-move classes: what do you think?

Voters
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  • I'm a teacher and I like the idea

    7 25.93%
  • I'm a teacher and I dislike the idea

    0 0%
  • I'm a dancer and I like the idea

    11 40.74%
  • I'm a dancer and I dislike the idea

    6 22.22%
  • I don't mind

    2 7.41%
  • I don't have a mind

    1 3.70%
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Thread: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

  1. #101
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    not according to the Ceroc Intranet which is where i have been told we should be getting the information from unless of course your saying that is incorrect
    If you're going to be talking about taxi-dancer things, and linking to resources only available to taxi dancers, can I recommend you use the Taxi-Dancer sub-forum for this sort of thing?

  2. #102
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Times have changed Martin, what Caz says is true.

  3. #103
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    If you're going to be talking about taxi-dancer things, and linking to resources only available to taxi dancers, can I recommend you use the Taxi-Dancer sub-forum for this sort of thing?
    Thanks.. Will do...

    Back to thread... I agree 3 moves is a good thing ...

  4. #104
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    I agree we never introduce ourselves as teachers but even someone who is not a taxi can teach others moves i often get taught moves by people i see doing them dont you??? and we dont just practice the moves as we are showing the beginners how to do the moves therefore we are teaching so how do you run your beginners review then ?
    Just out of curiosity, are Ceroc taxis now taught how to teach? I remember trying to help out at a review class at Blitz Bowdon some years back and say a whole raft of basic mistakes and misconceptions taught by the taxi dancers. Not their fault. If someone doesn't explain to you the key points its easy to get the wrong end of the stick. Having said that, some crew are just naturally very good coaches.

  5. #105
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Just out of curiosity, are Ceroc taxis now taught how to teach? I remember trying to help out at a review class at Blitz Bowdon some years back and say a whole raft of basic mistakes and misconceptions taught by the taxi dancers. Not their fault. If someone doesn't explain to you the key points its easy to get the wrong end of the stick. Having said that, some crew are just naturally very good coaches.
    Nope, as stated in this thread previously, taxi dancers are not taught to teach etc etc....see my previous posts.....

  6. #106
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    When one of the moves is the shoulder slide i would think 30 mins would be more than enough
    Then I hope you become a better teacher in time.

  7. #107
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Just out of curiosity, are Ceroc taxis now taught how to teach? I remember trying to help out at a review class at Blitz Bowdon some years back and say a whole raft of basic mistakes and misconceptions taught by the taxi dancers. Not their fault. If someone doesn't explain to you the key points its easy to get the wrong end of the stick. Having said that, some crew are just naturally very good coaches.
    We had a training day prior to starting duty going over the main issues for all beginners moves for both lead and follow (my first experience following ^_^). But what comes out of the mouth of a taxi isn't religiously scripted or rehearsed. But taxi should know how to do the moves by the book and be able to show/teach conections and tension etc. After all, that should be common sense to a more experienced dancer.

    (blimey, how did I get to be a taxi)

  8. #108
    Registered User Beowulf's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    After an extended period of absense I went back dancing last night and had my first 3 move lesson with Trampy as the teacher.

    I have to say I enjoyed it. he concentrated more on some key skill/sytle points, Emphasising the role of the lead and follow, and generally running over each move more times with many more dancers.

    I for one think the 3 moves thing is a good idea.

  9. #109
    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Just out of curiosity, are Ceroc taxis now taught how to teach? I remember trying to help out at a review class at Blitz Bowdon some years back and say a whole raft of basic mistakes and misconceptions taught by the taxi dancers. Not their fault. If someone doesn't explain to you the key points its easy to get the wrong end of the stick. Having said that, some crew are just naturally very good coaches.
    no Taxi dancers are not trained teachers
    having said that most have had a raft of dancing experience or they should not have been picked to be taxis in the first place secondly there is a huge amount of info on what to do, what to say, how to say it and how to generally conduct themselves as taxis on the ceroc intranet the username and password is freely available to those that need it

  10. #110
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    no Taxi dancers are not trained teachers
    I wasn't saying that they were trained to be teachers, just if they were trained to be taxi dancers. Not trying to cause offence but I've seen a number of very experienced dancers who, when taxi dancers, were teaching points that ran contrary to what was being taught on stage

  11. #111
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Can I make an observation.

    As far as the (limited scoped) poll goes, the only people against the 3-move beginners lessons are punters, although only at a ratio of 1:2 to people who like it.

    So then 100% of teachers are in favour yet only 67% of punters are in favour.

    So then, are teachers misconceived as to what the punters want?

  12. #112
    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    Can I make an observation.

    As far as the (limited scoped) poll goes, the only people against the 3-move beginners lessons are punters, although only at a ratio of 1:2 to people who like it.

    So then 100% of teachers are in favour yet only 67% of punters are in favour.

    So then, are teachers misconceived as to what the punters want?
    I asked the 40 punters in our beginners review yesterday and they all said they preferred 4 moves as from the first night with a little practise they can then dance.
    The chances are those that dont get 4 beginners moves would not get 3 either especially as the one left out last night (our first time with three moves only) was the back pass when the teacher taught the armjive swizzle, the octopus and the first move push spin all hard moves to teach to a brand new beginner apart from the backpass which as we all know is a simple change sides and change hand behind the back
    By the way we have a good retention of people at chelmsford since we got a reasonable teacher and a friendly crew a couple of years back

  13. #113
    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    I wasn't saying that they were trained to be teachers, just if they were trained to be taxi dancers. Not trying to cause offence but I've seen a number of very experienced dancers who, when taxi dancers, were teaching points that ran contrary to what was being taught on stage
    absolutley no offence taken Gus
    and the taxi dancers are there to compound what the teacher says on stage not run contrary
    if they disagree with what has been said on stage they should take this up with the teacher who after all has trained to teach the dance if they are still not satisfied they need to talk to their taxi manager, venue manager or franchisee

  14. #114
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    So then, are teachers misconceived as to what the punters want?
    To be honest, I'm not sure if punters should get a vote - especially beginner punters. They don't get a good view of the learning process, and they usually have misconceptions - for example, "more moves = better dancer". So of course beginner dancers will want to learn more moves.

  15. #115
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    To be honest, I'm not sure if punters should get a vote - especially beginner punters. They don't get a good view of the learning process, and they usually have misconceptions - for example, "more moves = better dancer". So of course beginner dancers will want to learn more moves.
    So it's best to discount the opinions that matter most when it's comes to beginners impressions and their retention?

  16. #116
    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    To be honest, I'm not sure if punters should get a vote - especially beginner punters. They don't get a good view of the learning process, and they usually have misconceptions - for example, "more moves = better dancer". So of course beginner dancers will want to learn more moves.
    good point but this all started with ceroc asking people who didnt come back to classes after a couple of lessons why and from what i can gather their answer was it is too hard
    These are people who either didnt put enough effort into it, didnt listen or were not listened to when they were struggling

    I feel after all these years (i have been going to chelmsford for 9 years) to change something that in my opinion worked well ie 3 normal moves then perhaps one change hand or side type is simply mending something which is not broken and as i have said various times in this thread will not help as all the better dancers will not do the beginners class if they find it too boring then the beginners will not learn as quickly

  17. #117
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    So it's best to discount the opinions that matter most when it's comes to beginners impressions and their retention?
    Depends what you're trying to achieve.

    But even if you're trying to improve retention, asking people who are used to one system to comment on that system (compared to another unknown system) is not really helpful. You always prefer the system you know - that's why change management is so difficult.

    To me, the fact that all the teachers who've voted like it, speaks well of it.

  18. #118
    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Depends what you're trying to achieve.

    But even if you're trying to improve retention, asking people who are used to one system to comment on that system (compared to another unknown system) is not really helpful. You always prefer the system you know - that's why change management is so difficult.

    To me, the fact that all the teachers who've voted like it, speaks well of it.
    the teachers probably do like it as it makes the job they are being paid to do easier ie they dont need to work so hard for the same amount of pay
    the punters wouldnt like it as they are getting less for their money and dont forget the beginners lesson really is about placing down the building blocks for the later classes not about teaching style etc

  19. #119
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    the teachers probably do like it as it makes the job they are being paid to do easier ie they dont need to work so hard for the same amount of pay
    Wrong!

    I like the 3 move system because it works, I've taught at various venues using the new 3 move system in class and it works, you can see the beginners getting it more and more, the smile on their face tells a thousand words, much more than you can see on the floor, from on stage, I can see everyone who is getting it and who is struggling, even those beginners who couldn't step back in time with the music in the warm up can keep up with the 3 move routine.

    Oh and the whole "don't need to work as hard"... Give me a break

    Sing a new tune Martin, this ones getting old.

  20. #120
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    dont forget the beginners lesson really is about placing down the building blocks for the later classes not about teaching style etc
    Wrong!!

    The beginners class is designed for complete beginners - those who are brand new to Ceroc so they can learn how to dance! Ceroc is all about opening up the dancefloor to those who never in their wildest dreams thought they'd ever learn how to dance.

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