3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

[martingold]

So you have one taxi dedicated to each beginner ? That's great ! We tend to have 18 beginners & 2 taxis who are rushed off their feet !

Teaching 4 moves in 2 hrs is one thing ... learning 4 moves in 2 hrs is quite another !

You can show them what the move looks like, and they may even be able to do something that looks like the move. Is that enough ?

we actually have 12 taxi dancers 4 on duty each week then if there are a lot of beginners our of duty taxis will jump in and help as will quite a few of our intermediate dancers this seems to me to work very well

Well, I'm sure Ceroc have done their own research and feedback exercise, they don't tend to do this sort of change without thinking about it first.

And if this change means there's even a slight shift away from the move-monster approach - and it seems that it does - then that's a Good Thing.

that makes a lot of sense problem is some intermediates often sit the beginners class out now and without them dancing in the class it becomes a lot harder to teach and the beginners will struggle more as they wont be dancing with better dancers until the freestyle
but if it gets rid of the move monsters that would be a good thing

If a teacher and the taxi crew can't think of thirty minutes worth of things to teach about each move, doesn't that say something about the teaching?

when one of the moves is the shoulder slide i would think 30 mins would be more than enough as i said i would hope between a crew of taxis and the teacher that most moves could be taught in 30 mins some quicker some slower but overall 4 in 2 hrs should be ok
and before its said i know there are some people who struggle and the teacher or taxis should be there for them when others will get it really quickly so again there will be a balance

[FirstMove]

Don't assume all Ceroc classes are run like they are in London!

Locally, the beginners review class usually finishes before the intermediate class. Worst case is when I've seen them reappear after 30mins on the same night as the intermediate class had a mangle in it and took 50mins. The poor beginners looked most bored.

As for the ability of taxi dancers to teach technique

[David Bailey]

Don't assume all Ceroc classes are run like they are in London!

I'm not - I don't know how the classes are run in London either

Locally, the beginners review class usually finishes before the intermediate class. Worst case is when I've seen them reappear after 30mins on the same night as the intermediate class had a mangle in it and took 50mins. The poor beginners looked most bored.

Ah, interesting - I assumed the review class was supposed to take as long as the intermediate class.

I think I see what you're getting at now - if you make the beginners class "simpler", the review class could be even shorter compared to the intermediate class, leading to more waiting around for the intermediate to finish, yes?

[Steven666]

Ah, interesting - I assumed the review class was supposed to take as long as the intermediate class.

I think I see what you're getting at now - if you make the beginners class "simpler", the review class could be even shorter compared to the intermediate class, leading to more waiting around for the intermediate to finish, yes?

The review class never took as long as the intermediate class when I used to taxi but music would be played in the review room to give the beginners chance to practice what they had learnt until the intermediate class was over. In fact the music always 15 minutes over for anyone who wanted to stay in the smaller group before hitting the bigger dancefloor. Does it not work like that at other venues?

[jemessex]

I have heard that the way the 'taxi revision class' is run is about to (or maybe already has in some venues) change.
Because the fact that most taxi dancers are not MJ teachers themselves, this has or can have a detremental effect when trying to teach novice dancers the moves taught in the main lesson.
So, is it true that the taxi revision class now is going to consist of more of an emphasis on lead and follow rather than teaching moves??
I agree that 3 moves in the main lesson would be a good thing. Has this already become the Ceroc standard format or is it down to individual franchises to decide whats best for them and their class?

[jeanie]

Each venue will differ as it it down to the individual teaching techniques. I've not ventured much out of my local venue but the Wednesday night for me has been the best for teaching (I like the teaching style and there's usually less women to rotate ). I was also rather lucky one night in the review class that I was the only beginner so I got lots of valued teaching from 2 taxi's (thanks).

It also depends on the men/women ratio. One class sometimes has 11 ladies to rotate, which does mean less time learning the move in class (as opposed to 5 ladies to rotate)

The teacher may have tried different teaching methods and what they are currently doing may be the method that works best for them and the class.

[TurboTomato]

I have heard that the way the 'taxi revision class' is run is about to (or maybe already has in some venues) change.
Because the fact that most taxi dancers are not MJ teachers themselves, this has or can have a detremental effect when trying to teach novice dancers the moves taught in the main lesson.
So, is it true that the taxi revision class now is going to consist of more of an emphasis on lead and follow rather than teaching moves??
I agree that 3 moves in the main lesson would be a good thing. Has this already become the Ceroc standard format or is it down to individual franchises to decide whats best for them and their class?

As far as I know our revision classes have changed as well - rather than each move being taught separately and then a check to see if everyone is happy, they roll through the 3 moves in 1, and just repeat that. I haven't witnessed it myself though, this is just what I hear from speaking to a couple of taxis.

[Caz]

As far as I know our revision classes have changed as well - rather than each move being taught separately and then a check to see if everyone is happy, they roll through the 3 moves in 1, and just repeat that. I haven't witnessed it myself though, this is just what I hear from speaking to a couple of taxis.

Yep that is what we have been told as taxi's is going to happen too.. as of now. Means that the beginners dance all 3 moves through over and over again in order to get the moves into their "muscle memory" so to speak. Also should enable more time to dance the moves through to music.

[David Bailey]

Yep that is what we have been told as taxi's is going to happen too.. as of now. Means that the beginners dance all 3 moves through over and over again in order to get the moves into their "muscle memory" so to speak. Also should enable more time to dance the moves through to music.

Hmmm, I'm not sure I like that approach.

Dancing - well, social dancing - isn't about muscle memory and learning complex sequences of moves. In fact, long sequences are Bad Things.

I'd prefer more breaking-down, rather than getting a sequence letter-perfect.

[Steven666]

Hmmm, I'm not sure I like that approach.

Dancing - well, social dancing - isn't about muscle memory and learning complex sequences of moves. In fact, long sequences are Bad Things.

I'd prefer more breaking-down, rather than getting a sequence letter-perfect.

Beginners tend to justwant to get on with it. Only a few well want an intricate breakdown and that's where the one-to-one comes in. The sooner they start dancing rather than going at a snails pace the better, as far as I'm concerned.

[robd]

Haven't fully read the thread so apologies if it's already been said but I think a beginner's class of 3 moves is a good idea. I well recall my first night and thinking that the teacher was progressing way, way faster than I could handle. Even though I could deal with the moves as they were demonstrated (mostly) I struggled when putting the moves together to remember the order in which they ran. It's easy once you move past this stage to forget how tricky it can be for a newcomer just remembering the sequence never mind the content of the moves.

[David Bailey]

Only a few well want an intricate breakdown

Why is breaking it down intricate? Surely that comes with long complex routines?

The sooner they start dancing rather than going at a snails pace the better, as far as I'm concerned.

The earlier they get out of bad habits the better, as far as I'm concerned.

[Steven666]

Why is breaking it down intricate? Surely that comes with long complex routines?

Going into details is intracate. The whole picture/routine is general. That's my understanding.

The earlier they get out of bad habits the better, as far as I'm concerned.

Quite true but will the beginners stick around long enough and not get bored?

[David Bailey]

Going into details is intracate. The whole picture/routine is general. That's my understanding.

Well, I wasn't suggesting trying to cover the concepts of muscle groups, axes, weight distribution or anything like that. But spending a couple of minutes demonstrating how a lead is not a yank might be a good idea.

Breaking it down would seem to offer more opportunities. For example, if you had a sequence of "First Move - Manspin - Comb", you could demonstrate how each of the moves could be used in isolation.

In short, if you're teaching a sequence of moves, people will learn the sequence, not the moves. And muscle memory is Not Your Friend, it's Evil.

Quite true but will the beginners stick around long enough and not get bored?

Depends who the teacher is, I assume. It's perfectly possible for a good teacher to do a normal Ceroc class, even with the 4-move format, and make it layered enough to appeal to almost everyone. Marc Forster does this

[stewart38]

I've never seen intermediate moves repeated the next week? Does that really happen?

Of course it does the last time I can think of was Chesham, its happen a lot there over the years not just there. Id say one class in twenty ?

Or it could be a carefully considered decision, taken to improve the continuity of classes. Personally, I think this is a good idea - whatever the level of class.

Sometimes yes, ie 'we did this one last week and some of you seem to struggle so we will...... etc

Not as the teacher said once 'we will only do 3 moves this week including a carry over from last week as I've not had time etc to go through /remember a 4th (in a joky way) again at Chesham

The 5 moves for beginners was at Fulham and as far as im aware it was a one off although he went to ‘Nation’ soon after ?

[martingold]

Don't assume all Ceroc classes are run like they are in London!

Locally, the beginners review class usually finishes before the intermediate class. Worst case is when I've seen them reappear after 30mins on the same night as the intermediate class had a mangle in it and took 50mins. The poor beginners looked most bored.

The ceroc intranet says that taxis should encourage beginners to watch the end of the intermediate class

As for the ability of taxi dancers to teach technique

so are you saying that taxi dancers are incapable of teaching technique?

Ah, interesting - I assumed the review class was supposed to take as long as the intermediate class.
I think I see what you're getting at now - if you make the beginners class "simpler", the review class could be even shorter compared to the intermediate class, leading to more waiting around for the intermediate to finish, yes?

should give more time to help the beginners who do struggle as the taxis should be on duty until 10pm

Beginners tend to just want to get on with it. Only a few well want an intricate breakdown and that's where the one-to-one comes in. The sooner they start dancing rather than going at a snails pace the better, as far as I'm concerned.

where we go they (especially the new beginners) want it broken down and taught in as much detail as possible

But spending a couple of minutes demonstrating how a lead is not a yank might be a good idea.

Breaking it down would seem to offer more opportunities. For example, if you had a sequence of "First Move - Manspin - Comb", you could demonstrate how each of the moves could be used in isolation.

In short, if you're teaching a sequence of moves, people will learn the sequence, not the moves. And muscle memory is Not Your Friend, it's Evil.

Depends who the teacher is, I assume. It's perfectly possible for a good teacher to do a normal Ceroc class, even with the 4-move format, and make it layered enough to appeal to almost everyone. Marc Forster does this

could not agree more with these comments

people think taxi dancers are teaching a choreographed routine when they start learning one of the things that needs to be put across is its just a set of moves that are put together to make it easier to teach the beginners 19 moves over the six weeks that ceroc say it should be done in
As i said before are they going to tell teachers to stop saying "if you have been coming six weeks or less the taxi dancers are here to help you"
I would prefer the teacher to say "the taxi dancers are here to help you in your beginners stages" and not give a time plan as some people take much longer than others for whatever reasons

[Caz]

The ceroc intranet says that taxis should encourage beginners to watch the end of the intermediate class

so are you saying that taxi dancers are incapable of teaching technique?

people think taxi dancers are teaching a choreographed routine when they start learning one of the things that needs to be put across is its just a set of moves that are put together to make it easier to teach the beginners 19 moves over the six weeks that ceroc say it should be done in
As i said before are they going to tell teachers to stop saying "if you have been coming six weeks or less the taxi dancers are here to help you"
I would prefer the teacher to say "the taxi dancers are here to help you in your beginners stages" and not give a time plan as some people take much longer than others for whatever reasons

True about watching intermediate routine being demo'd before it is taught - this is to give the beginners an idea of what they are aiming for / the next stage.

Do have to mention though that as taxi dancers we do not teach we simply practice the moves with beginners. As all taxi dancers should already be aware, we are not teachers, we did not do the formal Ceroc (or other company) training and we are there simply to practice the moves etc with the beginners, help them in ways that we are able to (leaving the formal word for word training to the teachers) and to make them feel welcome, to enjoy their night etc etc

[martingold]

True about watching intermediate routine being demo'd before it is taught - this is to give the beginners an idea of what they are aiming for / the next stage.

Do have to mention though that as taxi dancers we do not teach we simply practice the moves with beginners. As all taxi dancers should already be aware, we are not teachers, we did not do the formal Ceroc (or other company) training and we are there simply to practice the moves etc with the beginners, help them in ways that we are able to (leaving the formal word for word training to the teachers) and to make them feel welcome, to enjoy their night etc etc

I agree we never introduce ourselves as teachers but even someone who is not a taxi can teach others moves i often get taught moves by people i see doing them dont you??? and we dont just practice the moves as we are showing the beginners how to do the moves therefore we are teaching

so how do you run your beginners review then ?

[Caz]

I agree we never introduce ourselves as teachers but even someone who is not a taxi can teach others moves i often get taught moves by people i see doing them dont you??? and we dont just practice the moves as we are showing the beginners how to do the moves therefore we are teaching

so how do you run your beginners review then ?

I would word it however as showing moves to others / sharing knowledge etc. not teaching as such. I just emphasised the word teach as we recently had taxi training and were advised about the new beginners practice sessions and how they would be run in the future. I am just emphasising I guess that as taxi dancers we have not been formally trained to teach so i.e. in the practice sessions we are not insured etc to "teach" in the sense that the teachers do, i.e. men put your left hand blah blah blah. We can advise and practice the routines / moves with the beginners with one word instructions i.e. shoulder / twist etc but the "teaching" of moves should be done by the qualified teacher. Hope that answers your question?

[martingold]

I would word it however as showing moves to others / sharing knowledge etc. not teaching as such. I just emphasised the word teach as we recently had taxi training and were advised about the new beginners practice sessions and how they would be run in the future. I am just emphasising I guess that as taxi dancers we have not been formally trained to teach so i.e. in the practice sessions we are not insured etc to "teach" in the sense that the teachers do, i.e. men put your left hand blah blah blah. We can advise and practice the routines / moves with the beginners with one word instructions i.e. shoulder / twist etc but the "teaching" of moves should be done by the qualified teacher. Hope that answers your question?

not according to the Ceroc Intranet website for Taxi-dancers, which is where i have been told we should be getting the information from unless of course your saying that is incorrect.
it calls what we call a review class a workshop this is an extract from the handout that we all should have

this workshop should last about half an hour. During the workshop you need to go over the four ceroc moves which have been taught in the class the workshop should work in much the same way as the class only on a smaller basis you should rotate in with your class in order to dance with all the beginners yourself during the workshop.
it also has a sheet called
"Taxi dancers standard Phraseology beginners Moves Counting through the beats"

which defines all the beginners moves in beat form ie 1-offer 2-left 3-right etc etc

Although we are not allowed to call ourselves teachers (and i wholeheartedly agree with that as its one of the things which makes a ceroc lesson stand out) but we do teach ie we impart information and to say we dont is just splitting hairs