View Poll Results: 3-move classes: what do you think?

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  • I'm a teacher and I like the idea

    7 25.93%
  • I'm a teacher and I dislike the idea

    0 0%
  • I'm a dancer and I like the idea

    11 40.74%
  • I'm a dancer and I dislike the idea

    6 22.22%
  • I don't mind

    2 7.41%
  • I don't have a mind

    1 3.70%
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Thread: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

  1. #41
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    I've taught the 3 move system 3 times now and I have to say it's funking brilliant. Should have been done a long time ago.

    I feel that I can focus more of how to dance rather than just rattling through four moves. You can put far more emphasis on the all important lead and follow aspect of it.

    For the most part, Modern Jive is not about right and wrong when it comes to the moves themselves, but rather making you're partner feel good when you're dancing with them and if you can spend time emphasising this when people first start, then it can only be a good thing.

    We don't carry a move over from one week to the next any more and it isn't that imprtant to learn all 19 before progressing. Eg, you don't have to have learnt all 3 armjives and both first moves before moving on. So, 6 weeks is still a decent guide, but has never and should never be sent in stone.

    Intermediates should also get more from the beginners class these days. With the teacher being able to teach more lead and follow technique, intermediates should find it far more useful than just going through the motions of four moves they already know.

  2. #42
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
    NOOOOO!!! I know most of the people on this forum pick moves up very easily, some even after just watching a move, the others only need one teach through etc.. However, there are beginners who do not know how to put one foot in front of the other... Litterally, when you're going through Ceroc Essentials, they are learning how to dance to a beat for the first time in their life. If you then say, okay, men offer your left hand to the lady's right... Semi circle and SIGNAL!! WHAT!?!? SIGNAL!!?!? AHHH *dies*

    The whole point of a beginners moves is that it's simple, they're bog standard moves which are also the basis of many intermediate and beyond moves. The classic moves are fine where they are in the intermediate routines.

    You've just got to think, on their first night as someone who's never danced before in their lives, would you then want them going round pretzeling everyone!? Think of the injurys alone before you attempt to visualise their disapointment and frustration that they can't "get" the move, I cirtainly wouldn't come back.
    Fair play. But when does the preztel or sway ever get taught?

    They get taught in local non ceroc franchises and don't seem to out of reach to beginners. Some may struggle but others may struggle on a simple return (like one yesterday).

    Guess it's about balance.

    I would have to say though that that teaching is a job I don't envy!

  3. #43
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    It should get taught at least every 3 months at every Ceroc venue. So if you only go to one venue a week, you should have learned a pretzel after 3 months of starting intermediate classes.

    Pretzel's aren't the be-all and end-all to be fair.

  4. #44
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    another thing that bothers me is when people go to the intermediate class the teacher will say something like this moves starts with a sway, lady spin etc which are not now taught in the beginners class since the drop from 25 to 19 beginners moves
    Irrelevant. Anyone doing an intermediate class ought to be capable of picking up a move which is completely new, and the teaching should not rely on prior knowledge. Sure, it helps when you've seen all the parts before, but having a name for the base move is all you'd get. Either the move is going to introduce some new elements, or it's not. What difference does it make if the first beat is the one you recognise? Chances are you won't have lead and follow both being utterly clueless...

    Although the teacher might not want to go through the first 4 beats of a first move when teaching a variation, I'm sure some teachers would always have something useful to say.

    Sean

  5. #45
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
    Pretzel's aren't the be-all and end-all to be fair.
    Pretzels aren't even the be-anything.

    I think I'll add a poll to this thread, it sounds like it'd be useful.

  6. #46
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    another thing that bothers me is when people go to the intermediate class the teacher will say something like this moves starts with a sway, lady spin etc which are not now taught in the beginners class since the drop from 25 to 19 beginners moves
    This only happens with moves that start with beginners moves. It should never be done for moves that start with anything else.

    I highly doubt a teacher will say "This move is called the Grenada Mangle Part 2, It starts in the same was as a grenada mangle..."

  7. #47
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Poll added

  8. #48
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Poll added
    I think you need some 'not sure' options in the poll. It's worth a try, but I feel that it is creating an even bigger gap between the beginner and intermediate class.

  9. #49
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keefy View Post
    I think you need some 'not sure' options in the poll. It's worth a try, but I feel that it is creating an even bigger gap between the beginner and intermediate class.
    I did think about it, but then it gets complex, so I put in a catch-all "Don't mind" thing.

    If you're not sure, don't vote

  10. #50
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    I know of teachers who seem to like staying oblivious to it all.
    The good teachers. You don't have to hear what the students are saying - you watch them - it's really not hard to see how people are responding, and you can very quickly tell who is geniunely paying attention and doing (or trying to do) what is asked of them, who thinks they already know it, aren't listening, and are blindly repeating the same mistakes each time, who is too busy chatting (or trying to tell their partners what they are doing wrong) and so on and so forth. Simple to spot. Harder to deal with.

  11. #51
    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
    NOOOOO!!! I know most of the people on this forum pick moves up very easily, some even after just watching a move, the others only need one teach through etc.. However, there are beginners who do not know how to put one foot in front of the other... Litterally, when you're going through Ceroc Essentials, they are learning how to dance to a beat for the first time in their life. If you then say, okay, men offer your left hand to the lady's right... Semi circle and SIGNAL!! WHAT!?!? SIGNAL!!?!? AHHH *dies*
    yes but i am not looking at it from the point of a dancer but a taxi dancer who has to dance with the said beginners and teach them in the review class
    what your saying is that the majority of people take more that two hours to pick up 4 moves which in my opinion if the teacher and taxi dancers are any good is not true
    ok i agree that you need more lessons than one to get the confidence to freestyle but no matter how many moves you teach that will be the case the first timer will never remember the move from the first week when they get to the second week

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
    You've just got to think, on their first night as someone who's never danced before in their lives, would you then want them going round pretzeling everyone!? Think of the injurys alone before you attempt to visualise their disapointment and frustration that they can't "get" the move, I cirtainly wouldn't come back.
    I could not agree more

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
    The main reason I love the change is I taught at a new venue with mostly brand new beginners for the first month or two, I would get routines with 5 moves (don't forget the in&out!) and teach them to these brand new beginners who would get half way through the routine, then panic because they can't remember what comes next.

    Believe it or not, there are some beginners that need more time than others, I know that's a shock to some of you who obviously picked up the entire Ceroc dance and became teachers after your first week, but for those of us who are mere mortals...
    surely with a new class of mainly beginners you would teach two beginners lessons for about six weeks this is what happened when i learned and at all the new classes i have been to i would be most supriesed if your teaching an intermediate lesson to a new class made mostly of beginners
    My other point is what about the people who have been going for 5 weeks and are just gettin to the point of being improvers you teach them 3 moves in a lesson they will leave because they will be bored as will any intermediate dancers you have in the class i have seen this happen very recently and the class i am thinking about now cant possibly be making the franchisee any money as its mostly women in the improver stage and going downhill fast

  12. #52
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat264 View Post
    The good teachers. You don't have to hear what the students are saying - you watch them - it's really not hard to see how people are responding, and you can very quickly tell who is geniunely paying attention and doing (or trying to do) what is asked of them, who thinks they already know it, aren't listening, and are blindly repeating the same mistakes each time, who is too busy chatting (or trying to tell their partners what they are doing wrong) and so on and so forth. Simple to spot. Harder to deal with.
    only problem with the main class i attend you get over 100 people in the main beginners class so in those cases as a taxi who takes the beginners review its my job to take the said people to one side after the class and take more time and care with them trying to get them up to speed as any decent taxi dancer would do

  13. #53
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by tsh View Post
    Irrelevant. Anyone doing an intermediate class ought to be capable of picking up a move which is completely new, and the teaching should not rely on prior knowledge.
    yes but in an intermediate class that has a large number of improvers you have to teach a whole range of levels of dancers so at the class i go to they teach three improver then one intermediate move we tell the improvers not to worry if they dont get every move because they are not aimed at them but it gives at least one move that will stretch the intermediate dancers which is also important as you need them in the class to help the improvers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
    This only happens with moves that start with beginners moves. It should never be done for moves that start with anything else.
    yes but my point is certain beginners moves are now never taught because they have been dropped such as the ladyspin i cant remember the last time that was taught at the class i go to

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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    :snip:
    ok i agree that you need more lessons than one to get the confidence to freestyle but no matter how many moves you teach that will be the case the first timer will never remember the move from the first week when they get to the second week
    I'm still like that 3 months later....

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    :snip:
    My other point is what about the people who have been going for 5 weeks and are just gettin to the point of being improvers you teach them 3 moves in a lesson they will leave because they will be bored as will any intermediate dancers you have in the class i have seen this happen very recently and the class i am thinking about now cant possibly be making the franchisee any money as its mostly women in the improver stage and going downhill fast
    I moved up to the intermediate class quite early, but only because I was encouraged too (by another beginner who had recently moved up). I like doing the beginners class as I feel you can only improve and I do actually enjoy it! I can pick the moves up reasonably quickly, I just have a problem retaining them in my peabrain

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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
    It should get taught at least every 3 months at every Ceroc venue. So if you only go to one venue a week, you should have learned a pretzel after 3 months of starting intermediate classes.

    Pretzel's aren't the be-all and end-all to be fair.
    We did pretzels last week (I think....)

  16. #56
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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    I moved up to the intermediate class quite early, but only because I was encouraged too (by another beginner who had recently moved up). I like doing the beginners class as I feel you can only improve and I do actually enjoy it! I can pick the moves up reasonably quickly, I just have a problem retaining them in my peabrain
    What they don't really tell you in class is that followers don't need to, and probably shouldn't, learn the moves – they should instead learn to follow.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    What they don't really tell you in class is that followers don't need to, and probably shouldn't, learn the moves – they should instead learn to follow.
    Depends on who you follow though

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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    Depends on who you follow though
    Some might need gentle guidance and encouragement but you still shouldn't backlead or pre-empt moves. It creates bad habits.

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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    yes but i am not looking at it from the point of a dancer but a taxi dancer who has to dance with the said beginners and teach them in the review class
    what your saying is that the majority of people take more that two hours to pick up 4 moves which in my opinion if the teacher and taxi dancers are any good is not true
    ok i agree that you need more lessons than one to get the confidence to freestyle but no matter how many moves you teach that will be the case the first timer will never remember the move from the first week when they get to the second week
    I've been a taxi dancer before I became a teacher, so I can see what you're saying, but I personally don't agree.

    surely with a new class of mainly beginners you would teach two beginners lessons for about six weeks this is what happened when i learned and at all the new classes i have been to i would be most supriesed if your teaching an intermediate lesson to a new class made mostly of beginners
    My other point is what about the people who have been going for 5 weeks and are just gettin to the point of being improvers you teach them 3 moves in a lesson they will leave because they will be bored as will any intermediate dancers you have in the class i have seen this happen very recently and the class i am thinking about now cant possibly be making the franchisee any money as its mostly women in the improver stage and going downhill fast
    That's me told then.

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    Re: 3 Moves in a Beginners Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    Some might need gentle guidance and encouragement but you still shouldn't backlead or pre-empt moves. It creates bad habits.
    this word isn't in my vocabulary

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