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Thread: more religious nonsense - please ignore

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    Papa Smurf
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    more religious nonsense - please ignore

    Well, you were warned.

    Bible Incident Draws Concerns - this is the story of a pupil who on ripping a bible and denying god during a class presentation, was suspended for a week and told to get a psychiatric evaluation. Seems a tad harsh. He should have had a book on Astrology, he may have got away with it.

    ...or Scientology, he would have got an A easily


    scroll down the comments (its oldest last anyway) and look for this post

    danneskjold
    Dec 20, 2007 at 4:35 p.m.


    apparantly, this is the pupil in question, which makes it slightly more interesting to read

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    Registered User ~*~Saligal~*~'s Avatar
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    Re: more religious nonsense - please ignore

    I agree with the comment he makes:
    "Haven't I already mentioned all of the literature that has been destroyed "in the name of God"? "
    Quite ironic really.

    BTW - quite impressed with the way the comments are written by the pupil - some things I've seen written by youth are very poorly expressed (he doesn't appear to be too deranged)

    Overall, I'm thinking the timing of his speech would have got in the way of people considering his opinion - then again, the maturity and "brain-wash" of the US that it's ok to have freedom of speech, as long as you don't publicity exercise the right (it's ok to think it, just don't say it!)
    Last edited by ~*~Saligal~*~; 4th-January-2008 at 02:15 AM.

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    Re: more religious nonsense - please ignore

    I'm impressed at how alarmed everyone is, that kid's a hero!

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    An Eclectic Toaster
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    Re: more religious nonsense - please ignore

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
    I'm impressed at how alarmed everyone is, that kid's a hero!
    Given that someone who looks like* a religious nut-job just won the first Republican caucus in Iowa, America needs an awful lot more kids like this one if it's not to continue it's slide towards theocracy.

    OK, so Iowa's religious demographic is atypical, but there's no doubt that right now, a publicly-declared agnostic could never be US President (and all have been of one Christian denomination or another - interesting breakdown here, I never knew Eisenhower was raised as a Jehovah's Witness!)

    *He also looks remarkably like Kevin Spacey

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: more religious nonsense - please ignore

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Bible Incident Draws Concerns - this is the story of a pupil who on ripping a bible and denying god during a class presentation, was suspended for a week and told to get a psychiatric evaluation.
    Well, he does sound like a bit of a weirdo, to be fair. Calling your fellow students ignoramuses isn't the work of Mr Popular. And if he weren't assessed, then if he started gunning-down fellow students in 6 months' time, I'm sure people would be pretty quick to point the finger of blame at the school for not acting.

    And comments he makes like:
    I laugh at you Christians, in your churches, on your knees, singing your silly songs, reading your silly old book,
    don't exactly make his case very well - hell, even Barry's not that bad.

    And tearing up books is wrong, anyway - any book, I don't care, even a Scientology book.

    That all said, if I were living with a bunch of religious zealots like he is, I'd probably want to rip up a Bible or two also.

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    Re: more religious nonsense - please ignore

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Well, he does sound like a bit of a weirdo, to be fair. Calling your fellow students ignoramuses isn't the work of Mr Popular.
    The context of the talk he was giving is lost in the headline. He was defending the Emerson aphorism "So far as a man thinks, he is free". The kid only strikes me as being "weird" in being quite intelligent. Reading his comments at 8:15pm, 8:28pm, and 12:29am I'm fairly impressed. Loved his line "In the beginning there was the word. And it became kindling." He also is aware of the difference between ignorance and stupidity, even though many of his audience weren't.
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    That all said, if I were living with a bunch of religious zealots like he is, I'd probably want to rip up a Bible or two also.
    Indeed - being a free thinker in small-town America must be fairly hellish at times. His home town isn't exactly Bible Belt territory, but in some ways that makes this story all the more disturbing. Had it been Alabama, they'd have lynched him by now!

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    Dickie Davies' love-child Cruella's Avatar
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    Re: more religious nonsense - please ignore

    Looks very similar to this forum. Someone makes a comment that differs from others opinions and everyone jumps on them verbally
    He seemed to be using the tearing of the Bible to prove he wouldn't be struck down. He wasn't, so God (if he exists) didn't give a toss so why should us mere mortals?
    It seems that all religions are given their bit of exposure in education but no one ever teaches the atheists/agnostics point of view.

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    Re: more religious nonsense - please ignore

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    ...And tearing up books is wrong, anyway - any book, I don't care, even a Scientology book...
    ... and not at all like moderating a forum ...

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    Re: more religious nonsense - please ignore

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    Given that someone who looks like* a religious nut-job just won the first Republican caucus in Iowa, America needs an awful lot more kids like this one if it's not to continue it's slide towards theocracy.
    Apparently, Mike Huckabee took to the stage for his victory speech, to the strains of The Liberty Bell . Who needs satire, eh?

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    Re: more religious nonsense - please ignore

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruella View Post
    Looks very similar to this forum. Someone makes a comment that differs from others opinions and everyone jumps on them verbally
    NO THEY DON- errr...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruella View Post
    He seemed to be using the tearing of the Bible to prove he wouldn't be struck down. He wasn't,
    Well, he was, kind of...

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    Re: more religious nonsense - please ignore

    Aside from the obvious - i.e. that a kid got a valid point ill-expressed - it does raise the issue of the reality of the separation between state and religion in the US, doesn't it?

    The US constitution guarantees freedom of religion, but may not quite freedom from religion.

    Some references to God are part of day to day life of the Americans: 'in god we trust' on the dollars, 'god bless america' at the end of virtually every political speech (or am I mistaken there - it's quite possible, but I'm sure I've heard it from Bush and find that extremely shocking).

    America being the crazy country it has become (read of all extremes), no wonder the kid was sent for psychatric evaluation, I'm with DJ there, in this context a school could probably not not request it given that the kid called the class a bunch of idiots and past history of violence in various schools.

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: more religious nonsense - please ignore

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    I'm with DJ there, in this context a school could probably not not request it given that the kid called the class a bunch of idiots and past history of violence in various schools.
    The school was in a no-win situation - do nothing and be accused of negligence, do something and be accused of over-reacting.

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    Re: more religious nonsense - please ignore

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    Aside from the obvious - i.e. that a kid got a valid point ill-expressed - it does raise the issue of the reality of the separation between state and religion in the US, doesn't it?

    The US constitution guarantees freedom of religion, but may not quite freedom from religion.

    Some references to God are part of day to day life of the Americans: 'in god we trust' on the dollars, 'god bless america' at the end of virtually every political speech (or am I mistaken there - it's quite possible, but I'm sure I've heard it from Bush and find that extremely shocking).
    lol - I didn't quite finish my post there, did I

    So I'm saying in a society where references to God are omnipresent and deeply amalgamated with social and political life, no wonder that kids and teachers being confronted with someone tearing a page from the Bible are shocked and over-react.

    Also, saying to people blinded by faith that they are narrow-minded idiots is probably the least fruitful approach one can take to make their point - as I'm sure Barry could explain very well if he wasnt blinded by anti-faith himself - and is likely to produce the opposite reaction to what was expected (people standing for their faith instead of a willingness to consider a different perspective and vision of the world).

    The school says the kid was expelled on the grounds of disrespect, and that's probably true, but it does beg the question: Can one respectfully tear up a Bible in today's America ?
    (anybody saying that "the very act of tearing up something others consider holy is disrespectful" just answers 'no' to the question, btw).

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    Re: more religious nonsense - please ignore

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    don't exactly make his case very well - hell, even Barry's not that bad.
    Look, I'm trying my best, OK? He doesn't have full time job to hold down.


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    Re: more religious nonsense - please ignore

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    as I'm sure Barry could explain very well if he wasnt blinded by anti-faith himself -
    I don't see your point.

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    Re: more religious nonsense - please ignore

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    So I'm saying in a society where references to God are omnipresent and deeply amalgamated with social and political life
    Not really - "in god we trust" was only added to money in the 1950's (although it had been on coins much longer). That was also when "so help me god" was added to the end of legal oaths, "In God We Trust" became the national motto and "under God" was added to the secular Pledge of Allegiance. So we are talking a mere 50 years. Its also worth bearing in my mind that these changes only came about as a reaction to the anti-religious communism of the time. America was created, deliberately, as a totally secular country. Present politics are still fairly extreme though, so I don't see the word "god" being removed anytime soon.

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    Re: more religious nonsense - please ignore

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    I don't see your point.
    you crack me up

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    ...in a society where references to God are omnipresent and deeply amalgamated with social and political life
    Not really - "in god we trust" was only added to money in the 1950's (although it had been on coins much longer). That was also when "so help me god" was added to the end of legal oaths, "In God We Trust" became the national motto and "under God" was added to the secular Pledge of Allegiance. So we are talking a mere 50 years. Its also worth bearing in my mind that these changes only came about as a reaction to the anti-religious communism of the time. America was created, deliberately, as a totally secular country. Present politics are still fairly extreme though, so I don't see the word "god" being removed anytime soon.
    I do mean deeply, which doesn't necessarily mean that it has been so for a long time

    The fact that it's only a recent development in an country otherwise based a secular constitution doesn't mean that it has not become now very deep in the mindset of today's kids and school teachers.

    I wonder how many average Americans would know that 'in god we trust' was only added in the 50's... whatever the answer, it doesn't make it any less their reality of today.

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    Re: more religious nonsense - please ignore

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    America was created, deliberately, as a totally secular country.
    The American Government was created as a totally secular entity.

    The American country has always been highly religious - it's where we sent all the religious nutters, after all

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    Re: more religious nonsense - please ignore

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Its also worth bearing in my mind that...
    OK. Well you do that then...

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    Re: more religious nonsense - please ignore

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    The American country has always been highly religious - it's where we sent all the religious nutters, after all
    Yeah, and the crims to Australia.

    Who d'you suppose got the better deal?

    {thinks}

    Oz, for my money. It's easier to grow out of a criminal mindset than to escape from a loony religious outlook...

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