View Poll Results: Who representative are forumites of Cerocers in general?

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  • Forumites represent the average Cerocer on the whole

    2 6.06%
  • Forumites don't represent the average Cerocer on the whole

    25 75.76%
  • I don't know

    6 18.18%
  • Happy Christmas

    16 48.48%
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Thread: How representative is the Forum?

  1. #21
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    Re: How representative is the Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Yes they do, but they have been known to teach fusion dances that incorporate MJ and some do teach at regular nights in partnership with MJ companies and also teach at many MJ based w/e events.
    Ahh, now we're talking about the people who teach other dances who'd like a slice of the people that us lowly MJ teachers have attracted to the world of dance. A whole new debate, methinks.

  2. #22
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: How representative is the Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    This is a very twisted view. Some of enjoy debate. Some of enjoy heated debat. Others enjoy chatting about dance. Some enjoy the social scene that the Forum creates.
    .
    By 'twisted' you mean accurate but I don't like it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    After posting that I'd be surprised if we ever see another post from Rocky.
    Nice try Andy! But you know I'm not on here to have earnest and important discussions about MJ - it's just so I can push yours and everyone elses buttons..

  3. #23
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: How representative is the Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Ahh, now we're talking about the people who teach other dances who'd like a slice of the people that us lowly MJ teachers have attracted to the world of dance. A whole new debate, methinks.
    Correct me if I'm wrong Andy, but wasn't everybody I've mentioned (apart from the WCS newbies) teaching long before you strapped on a microphone on a regular basis? You lowly MJ teacher you...

  4. #24
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    Re: How representative is the Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    After posting that I'd be surprised if we ever see another post from Rocky.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Nice try Andy! But you know I'm not on here to have earnest and important discussions about MJ - it's just so I can push yours and everyone elses buttons..
    OK, so I wasn't remotely surprised.

    We're here to debate something we enjoy, chat with dance buddies, extend the dance experience into our normal day, etc. Rocky says he's here to annoy us.

    Spot the loser

  5. #25
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: How representative is the Forum?

    Anyway, this IS fun, but Xmas fun beckons too. Have a wunnerful Xmas everyone and a fab New Year. Hopefully I'll see many of you at the RB do at Bedford on NYE's where I will be DJing with the majestic Mr. Jon Brett.


  6. #26
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    Re: How representative is the Forum?

    I dont think that the members of this forum are representative of MJ but I do think that because quite a number of them are what I class as high profile dancers and weekenders their views are listened to and taken note of.I would also say that ALL the most respected DJs are on this forum.
    I am pretty sure that Jon and Wes take note of the comments of forumites such as Lory,ZW,Cruella,Minnie,SF,UPand DJ.Not necessarily because they are representative but because they know they have a passion for dance.

  7. #27
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    Re: How representative is the Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post

    I forget who said it on here orginally, and you're not going to like it, but it definitely has a ring of truth about it - and that is:

    'Those that CAN really dance and CAN really teach, do it - those that can't, talk about it...'
    That's plagarism.
    The correct saying is -

    Those that CAN really fxxx, do it - those that can't, talk about it.

    There are a handful of notable exceptions on the Forum,
    you yourself then , Rocky?

    but that in essence is why its not taken seriously by the majority on the outside who look in occasionally, have a snigger at what goes on and then with a sigh of relief log off never, ever return..
    It's quite scary making that first post.
    Some never do, but they love to read other's posts.

    Those that have the guts to post are welcomed by really friendly forumites.
    A virgin poster is always traeted with respect.

    In fact I will say that forumites are more friendly than non forumites.

  8. #28
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    Re: How representative is the Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    I dont think that the members of this forum are representative of MJ but I do think that because quite a number of them are what I class as high profile dancers and weekenders their views are listened to and taken note of.I would also say that ALL the most respected DJs are on this forum.
    How do you come to that conclusion. There aren't that many DJs on the Forum compared to the 200 - 300 in the UK. How have you concluded who IS and ISN'T one of the almighty?

    Re the dancers ... there are probably more top dancers that AREN'T posters on the Forum than are! If this a case of Forumites being under an illusion as to their own importance?

  9. #29
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    Re: How representative is the Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong Andy, but wasn't everybody I've mentioned (apart from the WCS newbies) teaching long before you strapped on a microphone on a regular basis? You lowly MJ teacher you...
    Sorry to have to stand up for Andy ... but when exactly did you pass your CTA exam Rocky?

  10. #30
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    Re: How representative is the Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Sorry to have to stand up for Andy ... but when exactly did you pass your CTA exam Rocky?
    Yeah! Both Gus and I have passed a MJ teaching exam - and we've been formally trained to teach MJ. And we're both devilishly handsome ...

    .. just hoping for the verisimilitude effect

  11. #31
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    Re: How representative is the Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Yeah! Both Gus and I have passed a MJ teaching exam - and we've been formally trained to teach MJ. And we're both devilishly handsome ...
    Looks like someone has been sampling the Xmas port a little early this year ....

  12. #32
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    Re: How representative is the Forum?

    We should not forget that the ‘right’ to express an opinion is very different to expressing an opinion of any value.
    Every opinion is valuable. If it represents indifference we can start with the fact that some don't care and ask why they don't, and why we do. If it respresents ignorance we can ask how to correct it.
    The Forum membership also represents less that 1% of the National population of MJ dancers and the ACTIVE people who post – for this read, those members who like the sound of their own voices, therefore represent around .01% of the MJ population.
    We have around 600 MP's to represent around 60 million people. FWIW That is around .001 % MP's are just as self-selected as Forum members, the only difference is we get to vote for one of the self-selected. Usually we know little more about them than the brand label they carry.
    The Forum is also known for being a place that likes to post criticism and is also full of people being sycophantic and luvvy – this unfortunately over rides the useful stuff posted…
    Whereas Parliament ...
    I'm sorry to have to break it to you but, given the above, you can see that’s because most of the people in MJ Nationwide believe your views are actually pretty irrelevant in the scheme of things. You represent less than 0.01% of the MJ community and although you consider yourself to be important because you’re a customer you actually DON’T represent the vast majority of customers who attend MJ events Nationwide… sorry but that’s a matter of FACT.
    I did not contest that as a fact. I said it was irrelevant.
    DTS is too hot, Tens of thousands of MJ'ers are not. Irrelevant. How many MJ'ers in Ashtons are too hot?

    I come to this forum to learn, and to share the little knowledge that I possess. Today I learned from this forum that Jon Brett is DJ'ing at an event on NYE in my home town. I thought it had been killed off forever by Zeppo's Circus. It is not an irrelevant forum for me.

    FWIW On water prices and over-heating I voted with my feet on Ashtons years ago.

  13. #33
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    Re: How representative is the Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    How do you come to that conclusion. There aren't that many DJs on the Forum compared to the 200 - 300 in the UK. How have you concluded who IS and ISN'T one of the almighty?

    Re the dancers ... there are probably more top dancers that AREN'T posters on the Forum than are! If this a case of Forumites being under an illusion as to their own importance?
    Now then Gus,unless I am very much mistaken that post was just your little way of trying to press a few buttons.
    So I will rise to the bait.
    I think you would agree(and if you dont there is no point carrying on with the debate) that Southport qualifies as one of if not the best weekenders in the MJ year.
    I have only been lucky enough to go to one but at that particular weekend there were probably most of the respected-NOTE that I didnt say almighty-DJs in MJ.You only have to read some of the posts on this forum praising the music that the djs play.I am talking of the likes of Tess,Tigger,DD,JB,Tramp,Gus,Peter,Roger Chin,Toby and now even ZW,heavens Gus I dont have to name them all you know damn well who I am talking about.I happen to be one of the 200/300 djs that you mention.I like to think that I am well respected within my own little MJ world but these other guys and girls are respected in a much larger MJ world.I have no problem with that.Good luck to them.I only wish I had the time,inclination and enthusiasm to hopefully join them.

    Re the dancers.I am not talking about the Nigel and Ninas of this world and you know it.You know the very people I am talking about.If you spent one whole evening in the blues bar of Southport you would come across the very people I am talking about,not just the dancers but the DJs too.

    But I will concede that there are one or two who one could say are a bit deluded as to their ability(here again Gus you have used the wrong word.Ability has nothing to do with importance.)

  14. #34
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    Re: How representative is the Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    Now then Gus,unless I am very much mistaken that post was just your little way of trying to press a few buttons.
    So I will rise to the bait.
    I think you would agree(and if you dont there is no point carrying on with the debate) that Southport qualifies as one of if not the best weekenders in the MJ year.
    I have only been lucky enough to go to one but at that particular weekend there were probably most of the [U]respected[/U]-NOTE that I didnt say almighty-DJs in MJ.You only have to read some of the posts on this forum praising the music that the djs play.I am talking of the likes of Tess,Tigger,DD,JB,Tramp,Gus,Peter,Roger Chin,Toby and now even ZW,heavens Gus I dont have to name them all you know damn well who I am talking about.I happen to be one of the 200/300 djs that you mention.I like to think that I am well respected within my own little MJ world but these other guys and girls are respected in a much larger MJ world.I have no problem with that.Good luck to them.I only wish I had the time,inclination and enthusiasm to hopefully join them.

    Re the dancers.I am not talking about the Nigel and Ninas of this world and you know it.You know the very people I am talking about.If you spent one whole evening in the blues bar of Southport you would come across the very people I am talking about,not just the dancers but the DJs too.

    But I will concede that there are one or two who one could say are a bit deluded as to their ability(here again Gus you have used the wrong word.Ability has nothing to do with importance.)
    Southport IMHO is 'the best' weekender you can attend, and as a lot of you know I go to one or two of them


    Importance .. some times in the eye of the beholder.

    it does make me smile when someone on the outside looking in has such opinions, Trev rise above and not to the bait, your better than that.
    Last edited by Lory; 24th-December-2007 at 11:27 PM.

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    Re: How representative is the Forum?

    Sorry,I inadvertantly put Gus as a DJ.I did of course mean Gadget

  16. #36
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    Re: How representative is the Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    Southport IMHO is 'the best' weekender you can attend, and as a lot of you know I go to one or two of them


    Importance .. some times in the eye of the beholder.

    it does make me smile when someone on the outside looking in has such opinions, Trev rise above and not to the bait, your better than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    Sorry,I inadvertantly put Gus as a DJ.I did of course mean Gadget
    not like me to get it wrong


    of course i'm very,very, sorry Gus

  17. #37
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    Re: How representative is the Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Rocky hasn't considered the use of sampling. You don't ask all members of a population for their opinion in anything but a census. You ask a sample. If you want the view of the whole population you stratify your sample so that it represents the whole population. If you want a view of a segment of a population you take a sample from that segment. The size of your sample often depends on your budget. The bigger your sample the greater your confidence that it represents the population you are studying.

    When quantitatively reserching the medical world, which I know very well, you would only need to sample the views of 200-400 GPs from a population of around 40,000 (rounded to aid my calculations). Taking a bigger sample gives you no more, gainful, information. That means you'd only sample between 0.5% and 1% to get the views of the whole populaton of GPs.

    Then you have to consider that the forum is mostly about debating a topic. Not conducting a quantitative survey. This means that we are talking about qualitative analysis rather than quantitative analysis. This means you are asking the membership of the forum for their views on a given subject. There's only a finite number of points of view - you can only look at a subject from so many angles. When you are seeking different points of view you need a much smaller sample. If, for example, you were looking for GPs differing points of view on the treatment of hypertension, you'd find that you got no new information once you'd spoken to 20 - 30. Sometimes you get nothing new after the first 8-10 interviews! Of course, you may wish to quantify how many people hold the same point of view - that's where quantitative research is used.

    Bearing in mind what I've said above, I think the population of this forum is a reasonable mix of people who will present most of the points of view held by the population of Modern Jivers. However, I do not believe that the population of this forum is a representative sample of the whole of the Modern Jive population because it seems to be skewed towards the more experienced dancer. That doesn't mean that beginners views aren't expressed on here, they are: it just means that the proportion of beginners vs experienced dancers is different from the general population of Modern Jivers.

    Finally, as nobody has said that the population of this Forum represents the views of MJ as a whole it is evident that Rocky's argument is a spurious one. Maybe he's just looking for a fight - or maybe it's a bit too complex a debate for him to understand
    Answer to thread question = Hell no.

    I couldn't cope with too many Andy McG's!

  18. #38
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    Re: How representative is the Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    Sorry,I inadvertantly put Gus as a DJ.I did of course mean Gadget
    Sorry ... didn't know I wasn't a DJ .. didn't know Gadget was.

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    Now then Gus,unless I am very much mistaken that post was just your little way of trying to press a few buttons.
    So I will rise to the bait.
    No bait .. no buttons. I did have a longer comment to make but after reading the tone and content of your reply I don't really think it would make any difference.

    However, I DO apologise for the way I said what I said ... obviously one bitter shandy too many, the my core statement was that I don't believe that all the main DJs are on this Forum ... nor dancers. I wasn't making any comment re Southport ... which does have some excellent DJs and dancers ... I was just expressing my view .. albeit in a way that came across a bit direct ... so for that apologise, but not the view

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    of course i'm very,very, sorry Gus
    For what in particular?

  19. #39
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    Re: How representative is the Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Sorry ... didn't know I wasn't a DJ .. didn't know Gadget was.
    Then you must be one of the 200/300 you speak of.If I remember correctly Gadget played somr
    e tracks in the blues room when I was there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus
    No bait .. no buttons. I did have a longer comment to make but after reading the tone and content of your reply I don't really think it would make any difference.

    Nevertheless I would still be interested in your indifferent comment.You never know it might be a good cause for debate.

    However, I DO apologise for the way I said what I said ... obviously one bitter shandy too many, the my core statement was that I don't believe that all the main DJs are on this Forum ... nor dancers. I wasn't making any comment re Southport ... which does have some excellent DJs and dancers ... I was just expressing my view .. albeit in a way that came across a bit direct ... so for that apologise, but not the view
    No offence taken.Would be interested in your opinion of the who the main DJs are.


    I am not sure that I have mastered the art of splitting quotes with comments.
    Last edited by Tiggerbabe; 26th-December-2007 at 12:04 PM. Reason: Trying to fix quotes

  20. #40
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    Re: How representative is the Forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    Then you must be one of the 200/300 you speak of.If I remember correctly Gadget played somr
    e tracks in the blues room when I was there.
    Well ... I've played at Southport, JiveSpree, Blitz Ribby Weekender, UK Dance Champs, NZ Dance champs party ... and even at a Ceroc weekender (). Having said that I don't know if that makes me one of the 200/300 or something else? As long as I've the respect of a few key DJs who I've had the pleasure of working with, and I don't clear the dance floor too often when I play a gig, thats what counts for me personally. I would not say that playing at such and such an event make someone any more important or influential than anyone else.

    One of the most influential DJs, though not generally recognised, was Amir. My understanding is that his music in the 2003/4 period led to a lot of the tango fusion and ulta-lounge music coming into the mainstream.

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    Nevertheless I would still be interested in your indifferent comment.You never know it might be a good cause for debate. Would be interested in your opinion of the who the main DJs are.
    Don't really have a view. There are DJs who I like sometimes but thats very much down to my personal taset in music. Not being on the London scene anymore nor a regular dancer I'm a bit limited in who is making 'things happen'. The DJs who I see as having made the biggest impact on the national or their local scene are the likes of JB, Marc, Peter Phillips, Neil (Blitz Chester), TWK etc. There are DJs like DD and John Baker who probably ahve also had influence but I'm not in their area so can't comment.

    So ... what was the question?

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