Mary was not a virgin...!

[Dreadful Scathe]

Even so, if we're going to teach about a religion such as Christianity, we should make sure of our facts. You don't have to agree with a religion to teach about it accurately.

How accurate can you be though ? Christians believe multiple spouses are fine , gays are sinful and that accepting blood after an accident is cannibalism

[Baruch]

How accurate can you be though ? Christians believe multiple spouses are fine ,

Latter Day Saints: not generally accepted as Christians.

gays are sinful

Not universally accepted by Christians.

and that accepting blood after an accident is cannibalism

Jehovah's Witnesses: not generally accepted as Christians.

The virgin birth, however, is a foundational doctrine of orthodox Christian belief, and should be taught as such. That's not to say that children should be told, "You must believe this," or even that the issues you mentioned should be ignored, but the virgin birth is far more doctrinally important as a foundational belief of Christianity than those other things, and should not be misrepresented when Christianity is being taught.

[Barry Shnikov]

Religious instruction is the responsibility of the family and of the church/synagogue/mosque etc.

Ought to be, but clearly the meteoric (and regrettable - even on non-atheistic grounds) of faith schools suggests otherwise.

[Barry Shnikov]

Latter Day Saints: not generally accepted as Christians.
Jehovah's Witnesses: not generally accepted as Christians.

...by whom? They think they're christians - who decides that they are not?

[Dreadful Scathe]

Christians believe multiple spouses are fine , gays are sinful and that accepting blood after an accident is cannibalism

Latter Day Saints: not generally accepted as Christians.

Perhaps not generally accepted, by they are by many and they certainly consider themselves Christian. What you mean is, not generally accepted by YOU

gays are sinful

Not universally accepted by Christians.

It hardly matters if it is Universally accepted, there is plenty of evidence that it is a very widespread belief in the Christian community - publically so.
Even andystyle on this very forum has said "homosexuality is a sin", oh and Ghost here with "A Christian or Muslim fundamentalist has a very clear idea that homosexuality is wrong" .

accepting blood after an accident is cannibalism

Jehovah's Witnesses: not generally accepted as Christians.

Again, they think they are - others think they are. So they are. You can't go around saying those people aren't true christians , are you willing to accept that others will say that about you? Are you Catholic or Protestant ? Each would say the other is a "true christian"

The virgin birth, however, is a foundational doctrine of orthodox Christian belief, and should be taught as such. That's not to say that children should be told, "You must believe this," or even that the issues you mentioned should be ignored, but the virgin birth is far more doctrinally important as a foundational belief of Christianity than those other things, and should not be misrepresented when Christianity is being taught.

Ultimately its protestant christianity that is taught in normal schools, and catholicism in RC schools. Other forms of christianity are simply "wrong", as you demonstrate yourself with your "not generally accepted" comments. Even where Religious Education covers other religions - a particular aspect of that religion, generally the most popular one, is going to be taught. It would make more sense for the minority religions to be taught in RE, the big ones you can learn in your own time, if you aren't already directly exposed to them

Scathism anyone ?

[David Bailey]

Latter Day Saints: not generally accepted as Christians.

Ummm... I'd call them Christians. They call themselves Christians.

But, more to the point, the LDS abandoned polygamy over a century ago, so that's a pretty irrelevant argument in the first place.

Jehovah's Witnesses: not generally accepted as Christians.

Mmm... again, I'd say it's more a case of "A fringe Christian cult" - god knows (!) there are hundreds or thousands of these around. They are Christians, just not part of mainstream Christianity.

And judging Christianity on the basis of a few nutters on the edge is like judging social democracy on the basis of Stalin.

Scathism anyone ?

Nah, I'd feel morally obliged to worry about whether it has an "e"...

[Barry Shnikov]

But, more to the point, the LDS abandoned polygamy over a century ago, so that's a pretty irrelevant argument in the first place.

...officially.

[David Bailey]

...officially.

Wow, that goalpost nearly took my head off, it moved so fast.

By all means, feel free to have a go at Mormons for being boring sods, for basing their belief on this weird and unseen "steel tablet" thing - which then conveniently disappeared - for banning coffee, or any other of the weird beliefs they hold.

But they're not polygamists, and it's a cheap slur to imply that they are. They abandoned polygamy before women in this country got a vote, for goodness' sakes.

[Dreadful Scathe]

But they're not polygamists, and it's a cheap slur to imply that they are. They abandoned polygamy before women in this country got a vote, for goodness' sakes.

No they didn't only the LDS church did - can't you google for yourself ?

[Baruch]

...by whom? They think they're christians - who decides that they are not?

Pretty much every mainstream Christian denomination. And the Nicene Creed, which is pretty much the 'gold standard' of what it means to be a Christian.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Pretty much every mainstream Christian denomination. And the Nicene Creed, which is pretty much the 'gold standard' of what it means to be a Christian.

not according to some christians - are we meant to believe the majority just because there are a lot of them ?

[andystyle]

Even andystyle on this very forum has said "homosexuality is a sin",

Actually, I said that the Biblical teaching was that homosexuality was a sin. Not all Christians accept this, as Baruch has said.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Actually, I said that the Biblical teaching was that homosexuality was a sin. Not all Christians accept this, as Baruch has said.

the issue is if ANY Christians accept this, which is demonstrably TRUE, and you certainly didn't make it clear that you didn't agree with biblical teaching or were so selective about it.

[Barry Shnikov]

Wow, that goalpost nearly took my head off, it moved so fast.

By all means, feel free to have a go at Mormons for being boring sods, for basing their belief on this weird and unseen "steel tablet" thing - which then conveniently disappeared - for banning coffee, or any other of the weird beliefs they hold.

But they're not polygamists, and it's a cheap slur to imply that they are. They abandoned polygamy before women in this country got a vote, for goodness' sakes.

Hmm.

From wikipedia: "National attention in the United States again focused on potential polygamy among the church in the early 20th century during the House of Representatives hearings on Representative-elect B. H. Roberts and Senate hearings on Senator-elect Reed Smoot (the Smoot Hearings). Sixth church president Joseph F. Smith issued the church's Second Manifesto against polygamy in 1904 which clarified that all members of the LDS Church were officially prohibited from performing or entering into polygamous marriages, no matter what the legal status of such unions was in their respective countries of residence. In 1909 a committee of apostles met to investigate post-Manifesto polygamy, and by 1910 the church had a new policy. Those involved in plural marriages after 1904 were excommunicated; and those married between 1890 and 1904 were not to have church callings where other members would have to sustain them. Although the LDS Church officially prohibited new plural marriages after 1904, many plural husbands and wives continued to cohabit until their deaths in the 1940s and 1950s. Seventh church president Heber J. Grant who died in 1945 was the last LDS Church president to have practiced plural marriage.

The LDS Church now excommunicates members found to be practicing polygamy. The "Teachings of Brigham Young" and a LDS website on Joseph Smith are some examples on how LDS Church publications now commonly characterize the history of early church leaders on the practice of plural marriage.

Although most Mormons now accept the prohibition on plural marriage, various splinter groups left the mainline LDS Church to continue the open practice of plural marriage. Polygamy among these groups persists today in Utah, neighboring states, and the spin-off colonies, as well as among isolated individuals with no organized church affiliation. Polygamist churches of Mormon origin are often referred to as "Mormon fundamentalist" who often use a disputed September 27, 1886 revelation to John Taylor as the basis for their authority to continue the practice of plural marriage. The Salt Lake Tribune states there are as many as 37,000 fundamentalists, with less than half of them living in polygamous households. Most of the polygamy is believed to be restricted to about a dozen extended groups of polygamous fundamentalists. The LDS Church asserts that it is improper to call any of these splinter polygamous groups "Mormon."

--- There are large numbers of people in Utah and nearby states, and in Canada, who follow the Mormon faith in every element, except they (probably rightly) assume that the decision to outlaw multiple marriages was prompted more by the survival of the church in the 1890s than by revelations from god, and so they continue to practice multiple marriage.
Others practice polygamy by co-habiting with the additional wives, or marry them in secret hoping to avoid excommunication.
Hence 'officially'.

[Astro]

Actually, I said that the Biblical teaching was that homosexuality was a sin. Not all Christians accept this, as Baruch has said.

When the Anglican Church allowed women to be vicars, quite a few married vicars converted and practiced as Catholic priests. They were allowed to keep their wives.

Yet still Catholic priests cannot marry women (or men)

What's the latest on the gay Anglican bishop?

If one in ten people are gay, that is a huge amount of people.

Surely religious employees of the various churches/religions should be allowed to marry someone of the same sex and keep their jobs.

Is it not discrimination?

[Barry Shnikov]

When the Anglican Church allowed women to be vicars, quite a few married vicars converted and practiced as Catholic priests. They were allowed to keep their wives.

Yet still Catholic priests cannot marry women (or men)

What's the latest on the gay Anglican bishop?

If one in ten people are gay, that is a huge amount of people.

Surely religious employees of the various churches/religions should be allowed to marry someone of the same sex and keep their jobs.

Is it not discrimination?

church is exempt from the discrimination laws.

[Astro]

church is exempt from the discrimination laws.

The Churches are not exactly in the vanguard are they?

Seems like they are in some Dark Ages time warp.

[Barry Shnikov]

The Churches are not exactly in the vanguard are they?

Seems like they are in some Dark Ages time warp.

Well, 'pon my soul! D'you really think so?

[timbp]

If one in ten people are gay, that is a huge amount of people.

I can't cite references, but I think that one in ten includes people who try it once and decide they are not interested.

[Donna]

I was watching Christmas Voices on BBC1 this morning. I was fascinated to learn that when the Greeks translated the original Hebrew manuscript of the birth of Christ, they got it all wrong...

"Look, the Virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel."

In fact 'Virgin' comes from Mattews use of a Greek mistranslation. The Hebrew in Isaiah reads 'Young Girl'.

So not a virgin after all, just a young girl, knocked up with nowhere to go.

Fascinating stuff. My view is that you don't have to believe in fairy stories to have faith. You can still be faithful to God, without believing in miracles.

Hmmm this is quiet interesting.

Not that I'm saying I actually believe in what I also heard about such miracles, but drugs were used quite a lot in those days too. Sometimes you have to question whether or not they were real, or just hallucinations.