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Thread: Effective martial art?

  1. #21
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    Re: Effective martial art?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    OK ....SOLD!

    Now, exactly which martial art can train me to be 6'8" tall?
    I told you already you have to be special to be chosen :

    I am!

  2. #22
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    Re: Effective martial art?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    backfists to the temple and roundhouse kicks
    First, I've never (knowingly) been in a fight with someone who has martial arts expertise.

    But for the life of me I don't understand how roundhouse kicks can be effective. It takes too long to do them - I mean, compared to extending the arm in a punch which takes a fraction of a second and there are two hands that have to be watched. With a kick, you can see it coming - doesn't the opponent just take a step back and make you look foolish?

  3. #23
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    Re: Effective martial art?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    With a kick, you can see it coming - doesn't the opponent just take a step back and make you look foolish?
    Referee !!!

    Gus has a million and one ways to look foolish... please don't let Barry Shnikov deny Gus one more

  4. #24
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    Re: Effective martial art?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    First, I've never (knowingly) been in a fight with someone who has martial arts expertise.

    But for the life of me I don't understand how roundhouse kicks can be effective. It takes too long to do them - I mean, compared to extending the arm in a punch which takes a fraction of a second and there are two hands that have to be watched. With a kick, you can see it coming - doesn't the opponent just take a step back and make you look foolish?
    If you are not trained to fight you will know if you've faught against a trained fighter.

    Consider how a beginner looks when they fist come to MJ. They're like a kitten. It's the same with fighting. When I was doing martial arts I trained 3 nights a week and went to the gym 3 times a week. Consider the fight training a thug has. A few fights down the pub and that's it. Almost no training at all. A bit like someone who's mucked about in the dance floor thinking they can enter a dance competition and win.

    From reading this thread it sounds like people have been in a lot of fights. Although I've been in loads of combat situations in training I've been in no real fights at all - not ones where blows were exchanged. I've had a few people threaten me and walked/run away. The nearest I came was a few years ago in the street in a dark alled at 5pm on a Sunday in Brighton on the way back to my car after shopping with Sue and my 3 daughters. A tall youth ran at me out of a doorway, I reacted on instinct, kicked his legs out from under him and left him holding his leg on the ground.

    Where are you guys going to get into all these fights? I suggest you stop going to those places

  5. #25
    Registered User Beowulf's Avatar
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    Re: Effective martial art?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Where are you guys going to get into all these fights? I suggest you stop going to those places


    I get picked on as an easy target sometimes. I rarely (Ie NEVER) go to clubs any more ESPECIALLY on a Friday or Saturday night. I used to be physically attacked by the nephew of my Ex (she wasn't my ex at the time) because of a family feud.. he couldn't be seen to hit his aunt so I was the next best thing.

    I was mugged a couple of times when I first came to Aberdeen..

    I've had people, for NO reason whatsoever come staggering out of a pub and take a swipe at me. Didnt even see them or speak to them until the blow landed !

    I must just have a face that people want to punch

    I've done Karate as a kid , hated it. Did even less TKD later in life.. hated it too. I was never meant to be a fighter. I avoid situations if I can help it. I have very strong legs and can run like the clappers when needs be.

    My favourite martial art? Ru Na Way of which I'm a black belt

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    Re: Effective martial art?

    I haven't actually been in a street fight, have resolved a few though. Although I do have one rather rowdy friend after a few drinks who does like to stir things up... I have been started on & still do (must have one of those faces...) and used to get bullied quite badly at school, which is why I started TKD.


    I used to train 4 nights a week and was on form then. Some of the competitions I went to felt like I was in a street fight. The more corrupt the instructor the less 'techniques' you get in the ring and more acting you have to put up with. I was one of the smallest girls in my TKD class and I had to give as good as I got with blokes who were about 6ft in height and had the bulk of a bodybuilder. No matter how scared you are of getting hurt it only takes one punch/kick in the right place to hurt them. The majority of them didn't hold back either, which is what training is all about for me. And being short in height with regular leg length legs, a turning kick is rather effective. You don't always know it's coming as you can disguise it as a front kick, side kick, axe kick, do a hook kick first followed by a sharp fast turning kick. You do have to be 'quick' at changing though! We were trained to do at least 3 kicks in a row, no putting your foot down or punch consecutively as most people would think you were going to do a couple then back off.

    Get a kick wrong and you know about it. I fractured my foot doing a turning kick on a wooden board during a grading - had to do it again on the same foot to pass. I miss my old school training, it was hard, you got results but most of all there was RESPECT!

  7. #27
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    Re: Effective martial art?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    sYeah ... works great in the dojo when the opponent is standing still. Ever tried to do it in practice?
    No I haven't...and I'm not saying I could kick seven shades of shlte out of anyone who tried to attack me, but I learnt a lot of stuff that might help me out if I was in a horrible situation.

  8. #28
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    Re: Effective martial art?

    Hi Gus,

    The advice I would give to you, sorry I mean your “mate” would be.

    1) Improve your social skills as much as you can, much more fun to have a laugh and joke with people than get into fights. I think the majority of fights develop out of frustration and lack of respect. So learn to be charming for a more enjoyable life.

    2) Have a sport you enjoy doing to keep you light on your feet, badminton, Ceroc, table tennis. Anything that you jump around to but the more social the better as that will help with point 1.

    3) Think beforehand about troublesome situations and what would be the best outcome and best solution to provide that outcome.

    From 3 you should glean what warfare skills you require. If you’re a solider away to be posted in Iraq then having Karate or TaeWando in your toolkit may come in very handy but for most peace time situations then like you suggested they are literally overkill.

    So what modern day situation are you going to use marital art in?
    Well not one you can charm your way out of and not one you can just walk away from as those two are obviously the tactics of choice.

    I guess it will be a scenario something like:-
    Your wife has PMT and has just had a raging row with your teenage son about the mess in his room. Boy wonder has snapped and has decided the only solution is to strangle PMT mother. So what can you do? Not enough time to talk things through and come to a sensible agreement with son. Can’t walk way either. Only solution really is to restrain aggressive son till the red cloud goes away. Best solution I think would be to use a Martial art like Ju-jitsu. Tap a few weak points on the body then place in arm lock, head lock to everyone calms down.

    So to me learning a Martial Art like Ju-jitsu is very useful for today’s society.
    I only did 10 classes at most, so I’m only a crappy white belt but it has gave me more confidence to just go out and enjoy life and not worry to much about being attacked as I guess in most situations I’ll be able to blunder my way out of it and then leg it.

    For your original question Gus of being out with friends then getting into trouble at a chip shop or that then I think the best solution is to step back and try and find a reasonable solution. A reasonable solution might be to restrain the aggressor but the problem is if you do it dramatically then that will get other people riled up and before you know it you will end up with a knife in your back or something similar.

    So step back, give yourself thinking time for the best tactic then act. It is horrid to see a friend take a beating but I don’t think many wars have been won by everyone just piling in.

    In general I think it’s good thing to be able to protect yourself from mindless violence. At least enough to stun the aggressor and make them think your no push over and hopefully give yourself an opportunity to escape the situation.

    So any basic training in any martial art will give you this.

    When I was a teenager I did a few years of Karate. To me it is more of a hard physical dance form where only the basic techniques of blocking, punching and kicking can be of any practical use in conflict situations. The more advance stuff is OTT for practical use.

    Ju-jitsu on the other hand is a more practical martial art, with stun techniques that allow you time to escape or then put the opponent into locks to restrain them.

    These are the only two martial art forms I’ve tried, would be interested to hear other peoples experiences of other types of martial art are and what uses they have for today’s social climate.

    Cheers DD.

  9. #29
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    Re: Effective martial art?

    Quote Originally Posted by DundeeDancer View Post
    So what modern day situation are you going to use marital art in?
    ...snip...
    Your wife has PMT...

  10. #30
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    Re: Effective martial art?

    Capoeira, kill two birds with one stone

    No, I don't have anything useful to add.

  11. #31
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Effective martial art?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    But for the life of me I don't understand how roundhouse kicks can be effective. It takes too long to do them - I mean, compared to extending the arm in a punch which takes a fraction of a second and there are two hands that have to be watched. With a kick, you can see it coming - doesn't the opponent just take a step back and make you look foolish?
    Obviously you've never seen someone do it well, even I (and I never made blackbelt) in my old days could land a roundhouse in your torso or inside leg before you'd had chance to move. When I was at my best in competitions, I had my opponent land a double roundhouse combo in my face before I'd even got my hand out to block the first kick.

  12. #32
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    Re: Effective martial art?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Mate if mine is interested in taking up martial arts, with a view to being 'street capable', i.e. if something kicked off he would be able to defend himself in a street situation. He asked me because I used to do karate ( a long time ago).

    My views so far are;

    Karate / TaeKwando: ok at long to medium distance but you either severely damage or kill ... not much in the way of just 'stopping' someone. Not very fluid. Poor at closed distance and enclosed spaces.

    Wing Chu: Good at close distance but little long distance techniques and little kicking
    Did Wing Chun for a number of years and there are close kicking techniques and a fair few evasive footwork type stuff but as you say little long distance techniques

    Web site for back ground Midlands Wing Chun Kuen - Hong Kong Wing Chun in the UK


    I never forget we had a instructor (been doing it for about 3yrs) who got his head kicked in by 4 drunken youths in Portsmouth (I started learning it while at Ports Poly).

    He was so ‘surprised’ he wasn’t like Bruce Lee etc all the ‘techniques he had learnt were forgotten and he was a teacher (He talked about it to the owner of the club)

    Street capable (apart from running) would include carrying a large knife if you can’t carry a gun etc Hit someone first (25/30% more likely to win etc)

    Street capable is staying in your car when 3 youths decide to kick a can against it

    When they give you lip let one come over grab him drive the car holding onto him and let him roll on the floor as you drive off etc hoping you don’t kill him in the process

    I.e. it’s using what’s around you

    It’s not getting out and testing your Bruce Lee skills

    Many fights in my youth that ‘my friend’ won have been a result of it there 7 against 2 etc. That’s street capable

  13. #33
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Effective martial art?

    Quote Originally Posted by DundeeDancer View Post
    Hi Gus,

    SNIP

    These are the only two martial art forms I’ve tried, would be interested to hear other peoples experiences of other types of martial art are and what uses they have for today’s social climate.

    Cheers DD.
    Can't argue with much of what you've said. Personally I'm old enough and ugly enough to deal with most situtaion ... and more to the point (as per Andy McG) not be in the situation/environment in the first place. When I have been caught, with one exception, been been to talk my way out ... but having the confidence and presence to do that came fomr my training by some very good martial arts instructors over a number of years and just life experience.

    Having said all that, the one fight situtaion I did find myslef in (ironically we had stepped in to stop a drunk being beaten up), if I hadn't still been training, I would have ended up in casualty or worse .... so the expectation of 'social skills' being the answer to all situations maybe isn't quite there. As with many things in life, its about having the right 'weapon/strategy' for the right situation

    Oh ... probably my best training for dealing with confrontation was my time serving court papers ... for some reason people don't like getting served with eviction or court orders, especially when they are drug dealers, fraudsters or similar no-marks. engaging in hand-to-hand combat with people of this ilk is far from recommended ... learnt a lot from the guys I was working with.

  14. #34
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    Re: Effective martial art?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    A chip shop that's still serving at 2am - that's WORTH fighting for
    Come to Leeds, there's plenty of chippies catering to that post-nightclub hunger!

  15. #35
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    Re: Effective martial art?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    If you are not trained to fight you will know if you've faught against a trained fighter.
    Define 'trained fighter'.

    At uni I was persuaded to play the 'mugger' against some of the karate students (they were 2 grades off black-belt, I think). They got some very nasty surprises in how well their techniques worked against someone who didn't stop because they'd 'blocked' him.

    I went through their blocks about 30 times before they managed to stop me once. And I have absolutely no training and wasn't going "all out" - (i.e. was using my strength in a controlled enough way that no-one got hurt. If I'd been really going for it, I don't think they'd have ever stopped me).

    Point being - whatever their training did, it gave them b**ger all understanding of how to apply things to the real world.

  16. #36
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Effective martial art?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    Define 'trained fighter'.

    I went through their blocks about 30 times before they managed to stop me once. And I have absolutely no training and wasn't going "all out" - (i.e. was using my strength in a controlled enough way that no-one got hurt. If I'd been really going for it, I don't think they'd have ever stopped me).

    Point being - whatever their training did, it gave them b**ger all understanding of how to apply things to the real world.
    .... the fundamental difference between a traditional fighting style and a practical style like Thai boxing!

  17. #37
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    Re: Effective martial art?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    Define 'trained fighter'.
    It sounds quite clear to me. If part of the training is to fight people pretending to be muggers then that is part of the training. You are not "trained" until you are effective in fighting those "muggers". I see absolutely no problem with people being ineffectual during their training.

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    Re: Effective martial art?

    In the Army they teach a "generic" self-defence, based on things learnt from martial arts and mostly designed to incapacitate.
    As someone else has already said though, it's one thing learning to beat each other up using only those skills, but it's a whole different kettle of fish when you faced with someone who has a different set of skills (it is funny watching a bunch of drunken squaddies get beaten up when they try it out the next weekend though ).

    As DT says, learn to do something that hurts and that might give you a headstart when you run away, anything more than that you should do because you enjoy it, not because you expect to become Bruce Lee.

    My brother is in the same line of work as UP, and a few years back disarmed a couple of known thugs trying to kill each other with machetes. He did it with his voice, confidence and a commanding presence. He's only an inch taller than me and not particularly big built either. No martial arts necessary.

  19. #39
    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Effective martial art?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    It sounds quite clear to me. If part of the training is to fight people pretending to be muggers then that is part of the training. You are not "trained" until you are effective in fighting those "muggers". I see absolutely no problem with people being ineffectual during their training.
    This was "post training", as it were. They'd been taught these moves, they were looking to demonstrate what they'd learned, and totally expected it all to work. If it had been part of their training, you'd have a point.

    The one mitigating factor I'd grant you: I was very strong for my size back then - easily the strongest person pound-for-pound at my college.

  20. #40
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    Re: Effective martial art?

    This thread starts to look like a WhoPeesTheFurthest competition.

    A: Look, it's me!
    B: No, it's me, I can pee super far !
    C: No, it's me, I train to pee the furthest 5 times a weeks for 3 hours!
    D: No, it's me, I received coaching by the greatest pee master in the world!
    E: No, it's me, I can knock you off your feet 45 meters away with just one pee shot!
    F: I, Spartacus, pee the furthest!
    G: No, it's me, and I'm not even trained to pee!

    etc.

    seriously, men

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