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Reply With QuoteSeriously? Learn to run. Optionally, also learn a fighting technique that will help you get a two second head-start. But learning to run is the key.
Mate if mine is interested in taking up martial arts, with a view to being 'street capable', i.e. if something kicked off he would be able to defend himself in a street situation. He asked me because I used to do karate ( a long time ago).
My views so far are;
Karate / TaeKwando: ok at long to medium distance but you either severely damage or kill ... not much in the way of just 'stopping' someone. Not very fluid. Poor at closed distance and enclosed spaces.
Wing Chu: Good at close distance but little long distance techniques and little kicking
Tai Chi / Aikido: Possible the best non-aggressive arts for stopping and controlling people ... but takes a LONG time to become effective.
Thai Boxing: Most effective style but training is very hard and high risk of injury.
So ... any practical advice or wish to put me right on my views to date?
Seriously? Learn to run. Optionally, also learn a fighting technique that will help you get a two second head-start. But learning to run is the key.
David, that's a very good point - the only good reason for running I've ever heard, in fact.
Gus, my brother does Tang Su Do karate (to a very high level) and taught me some nice self defence techniques he learnt through it after he'd been doing it for about 6 months. I got the impression that this is a style with a lot of useful movements and techniques taught from early on.
That was the basis of the old MAC1 course ... first strike to distract, second strick to down them ... then get the hell out of the way ... unfortunatelyt this doesn't work under an attack form mutiple oppoenent ... also, you have to be able to down your opponent first and make sure he stays down for a while ... without kiiling himOriginally Posted by David Franklin
TSD is very similar to trad Japanese karate (its a korean clone), esp Shukokia (I think) ... smae inherent problems. Founght with a few TSD guys when I was still into karate ... no better or worse, same limitations. HOWEVER, there was a Korean fusion systelem called Kuk-Swool (??) ... It was introdueced in teh mid-80s and looked really cool. Not sure what happened to it. A bit like Jeet-Kune-Do ... had lots of promise but only a few places teaching it.
I did Jujitsu for a few years purely to learn how to defend myself if I was ever attacked. You learn how to use your attackers own strength against them and go for vulnerable points.
For example...a side kick (kick to the side of the knee) takes relatively little strength to break the knee cap and leave your attacker in agony and unable to run while you get away. Keep it simple.
I'm a black tag in TKD and it's the best martial art I've trained in. There are different federations (I was GTF) and vary in training styles. Have you thought about kickboxing? It does self defence moves as well as learning the art & you get some weapon lessons.
I honestly think that there are very few people that could use those martial arts to kill someone in a real situation.
Everything I've read says running works a lot better against an attack from multiple opponents than any martial art does (assuming you're not one of the best martial artists in the country, in which case asking for advice on a Ceroc forum seems a little strange).
Which is, of course, impossible. I recall about 15 years ago a UK Karate Champion got into a fight, hit the guy with one punch and killed him unintentionally. Don't forget, it's not usually the punch that kills, it's the head hitting the pavement. No real way of controlling that, however skillful you are.also, you have to be able to down your opponent first and make sure he stays down for a while ... without kiiling him
I will generally talk my way out of a fight first, run like sh1t then fight. It's certainly a view up here with some police (my mate got questioned quite hard about defending himself) that if you jump straight in using your matrial arts, you have an unfair advantage - even if you are insured and have a licence. You're not actually trained to kill anyone - it's a case of attack where they can't defend - i/e below groin level (knee height as Trouble said) followed by a sharp kick/punch to the chest to wind them, then you run like sh1t hoping they don't have pals to chase you. I have never actually had to use it, and hope I never do. But it is good to have the knowledge and confidence of a martial art.
And you never look as good as they do in the films, and I wish you never got out of breath either!!
...and I observed a murder trial in the Old Bailey where exactly that had happened. South London, smal block of flats, ground and first floor let to businesses, upper floors residential.
The MD of an IT training company went out to remonstrate with a guy because his car was parked in a space that belonged to the company. The stranger complained that he was helping somebody move into a flat and had parked close to the nearest stairway. The argument grew heated, the stranger found a long metal pole that he was eventually persuaded to put down, but then he punched the MD who fell, hit his head on the tarmac and died 24 hours later.
In my view, there is one reason to learn a martial art - for the same reason you might learn dancing. It's fun, and you want to get good at it.
In real life, all you need is a quick response designed to get you out of reach of someone who, eg, has attacked you from behind. Once there is no contace, DF is right - run away.
As to how to do that, didn't the Israelis develop a combat style which was designed to be simple and effective, relatively easy to learn, etc?
Those people who are worried about getting involved with multiple opponents in city centres after dark would be better off honing their social skills rather than their fighting ones. Sooner or later you are going to be too old to deal with a bunch of drunken young blokes and you'll need to acquire that skill anyway...
Great advice!
To paraphrase a very funny sketch from Richard Prior.
"RUN! learn to RUN! Your ego will heal quicker than a broken nose!
and teach your old lady to RUN as well so you don't have to go back and save her!"
It doesn't look as funny written down but I hope you get my drift.
I saw a programme a while back on street fighting (ie fighting for real in these situations) where they interviewed a whole bunch of martial artists (some fairly scary seeming) and all of whom had had to use their skills in genuine fights - and they all said exactly this. They basically said that the majority of martial arts skills were fairly useless in most street situations - and could even be counter-productive.
On the flip-side, I had a friend a while back who once had the presence of mind to use some basic self-defence knowledge to get out of a very nasty situation - this was along the lines of DT's "kick 'em and run" suggestion. I don't even want to think about what would have happened to her if she hadn't acted correctly... so it can be useful.
Personally, I would love to learn a martial art (dabbling in Tai Chi at the moment, but I need to do a lot more than dabble if it's to be useful) - but purely to improve my movement skills and core strength... and hence benefit my dancing.
In my younger days I did loads of martial arts. My advice is to consider what "effect" you'd like. If you'd like to win fights, learn to fight. Pick a martial art and get very good at it. If I was going to pick a martial art for fighting drunk guys in the street I'd go for JuJitsu or Aikido. If I was going to select a martial art for sport and fitness I'd probably choose TaeKwonDo. If I wanted to win a fight in a pub I'd hit my opponent with a chair - requires much less training and is unlikely to take the skin off your knuckles.
The above paragraph assumes that you want to win a fight. It assumes you're choosing fighting rather than not fighting. My over-arching advice is to choose not fighting. The best defence is to stay away from places or situations where you have to fight. You don't need to run away, you aren't even there. And if you are there, don't be there for long - as others have said, learn to run fast.
As well as what has already been said, and based on the experience of friends who do karate, I'd say that martial arts can give you greater self-confidence and improve your reflexes. More direct fighting skills are the ability to be hit without it hurting as much, and the ability to hit and make it hurt.
Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story
A chip shop that's still serving at 2am - that's WORTH fighting for
Yup … I’ve run far more times than I’ve stood and fought … but there are a number of scenarios where you may have to fight: surrounded (happened to me); drunk (part of the surrounding situation); protecting someone else (yup, all part of the same scenario). Hit and run probably is the best policy, but it doesn’t cover all situations.
Traditional martial arts teach standard techniques as backfists to the temple and roundhouse kicks to similar areas ... often as part of kata ... its 20 years on since I was trained but I noticed, when larking about with my brother, that my first instinct is to use strikes which are potentially lethal ..... especially taking into account the damage when the opponent hits the tarmac. As DF says, its all too easy to kill by accident.
Fought TKD fighters in the past. Trick was to get in close and take their legs away. Saw some of the best TKD fighters get massacred by the local Karate team in a semi-contact match ... they had no defence to low level kicks. In an enclosed situation they were less effective. Mind you .... still not going to pick a fight with any of them ...
Yeah ... works great in the dojo when the opponent is standing still. Ever tried to do it in practice? Its harder to kick someone in the nuts than you think. I did some semi-street training ... all the 'surgical strikes' stuff went out the window ... came back to using low level Thai boxing kicks and elbow smashes when they came in too close ... and too many times I ended up face down in the dirt. Made me realise the limitations of traditional karate.
The problem with TKD is you only have a ,imited target area - the front chest & front/side of head. Which is absolutely no use for street fighting. It' still one of the beeter arts I've done, but that has to do with you're instructor too.Fought TKD fighters in the past. Trick was to get in close and take their legs away. Saw some of the best TKD fighters get massacred by the local Karate team in a semi-contact match ... they had no defence to low level kicks. In an enclosed situation they were less effective. Mind you .... still not going to pick a fight with any of them ...
Yeah ... works great in the dojo when the opponent is standing still. Ever tried to do it in practice? Its harder to kick someone in the nuts than you think. I did some semi-street training ... all the 'surgical strikes' stuff went out the window ... came back to using low level Thai boxing kicks and elbow smashes when they came in too close ... and too many times I ended up face down in the dirt. Made me realise the limitations of traditional karate.
The kickboxing class I go to (and I struggle half the time with other commitments) is also a good one. Covers all areas and every part of the body is a target. But would I use it? Hell no, only in an emergency.... where's that treadmill
I have identified the most effective martial art.
Its called "the look".
It is only taught to special people.
I am lucky enough to be one of those people.
You are chosen as special if you are 6'8" tall and 19 stone.
When you get into a situation on the street .....
you stand up to your full height .......
step on the toes of you prospective assailant ....
and tilt your head forward and give them "the look".
As they try to adjust their eyes to the lack of light and you see the fear etched into their face you know the battle is won.
OK ....SOLD!
Now, exactly which martial art can train me to be 6'8" tall?
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