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Thread: How they rip you off

  1. #1
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    Angry How they rip you off

    *warning... RANT ahead*


    So, in October, I failed to pay my credit card balance by 2.67 pounds.
    Sorry I mean

    2.67 pounds

    out of a statement with 4 figures (well it was a hell of holiday in california ). Anyway, messed up when I did the transfer on the internet and make a mistake, by 2.67 pounds.

    On my November statement I ended up paying 21.53 pounds interest.

    21.53 pounds


    which is over 8 times the amount I failed to pay by the due date. NOW I MY BOOK THAT'S A 806% INTEREST RATE.

    Sorry I mean
    806% Interest rate


    I phoned the card company tonight and what did they say ??? That if you fail to pay your balance in full, even by a ridiculous amount of 2.67 quids, you pay interest ON THE FULL BALANCE AMOUNT.

    That is BLOODY RIDICULOUS

    I can tell you I was ANGRY.

    Anyway... I managed to get the card company to refund me the 20 quid interest I paid. And to stop any more interest from accruing. (My argument btw was that this was ridiculously unacceptable - it was a lot easier than I expected btw, I didn't even have to threaten about changing bank )

    No wonder they make millions and everybody wants to sell you a credit card. This is cheating people. I can't believe it.

    Well today I've learnt that unless you pay your balance in full every month, you are getting screwed BIG TIME. So if you can afford it, well you should do your utmost to pay your balance in full. And if you can't... well you should probably stop using your credit card until you can, because you're being taken advantage of .

  2. #2
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: How they rip you off

    Something similiar happened to me once, except I was one day late on paying my credit card bill of not very much (less than £50 that month) that I had paid in full every month for years, never accruing any interest, and they charged me £25 late payment fee. I couldn't be bothered fighting over it, and just never used it again. It was part of the reason in fact why I stopped using that bank.

    And yes I know it was probably some automatic thing and they didn't care about the fact that I had always paid in full on time for years - but that was sort of the point - no customer care, you aren't an individual, just a number, and any excuse to get more money out of you.

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    Re: How they rip you off

    not bank related - but a rip-off still the same...

    Here in Oz (not sure if it's the same in Scotland), but for prepaid mobile phone, if you don't use your phone credits by a specified time, they take from from you!
    There are only a couple of companies in Australia who don't do that - and they have received a lot of rep from our consumer bureaus for having a business that doesn't take product that you've paid for away from you!
    (I'm so glad I don't have to use prepaid - but I feel sorry for those who do and then get ripped off)

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    Re: How they rip you off

    Quote Originally Posted by ~*~Saligal~*~ View Post
    not bank related - but a rip-off still the same...

    Here in Oz (not sure if it's the same in Scotland), but for prepaid mobile phone, if you don't use your phone credits by a specified time, they take from from you!
    There are only a couple of companies in Australia who don't do that - and they have received a lot of rep from our consumer bureaus for having a business that doesn't take product that you've paid for away from you!
    (I'm so glad I don't have to use prepaid - but I feel sorry for those who do and then get ripped off)
    I have heard of something like that, but I think its if you haven't used it for a year they deactivate the SIM and you lose the money on it? (I could be remembering that incorrectly.) I guess if someone had a phone with only £10 on it for emergencies only they might not use their phone for months at a time. I wouldn't think anyone who wasn't using their phone for months at a time would have much on it anyway, probably less than £10. Certainly a lot less than they'd be 'losing' if they had a monthly contract that they paid but never used their phone.

    But yes, if you have paid for phone credit you would expect you could use it whenever you wanted.

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    Re: How they rip you off

    No Lynn.

    When I was over there, I had a pre-paid account with Optus. 30 days after you charge your phone, any remaining credit is lost, and you have to pay to re-charge your phone again. I assume that the phone companies justify this on the basis that you said - if you have an account, giving you x amount of "free" minutes or calls, and you don't use them, then you lose them....

    On the original topic, due to me invoicing Franck slightly late, and then Franck being in hospital, and unable to pay me, I went over my overdraft limit for 2 days by £4.57. I'm waiting for the letter to tell me that they are going to charge me £30 for this....

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    Re: How they rip you off

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post

    When I was over there, I had a pre-paid account with Optus. 30 days after you charge your phone, any remaining credit is lost, and you have to pay to re-charge your phone again. I assume that the phone companies justify this on the basis that you said - if you have an account, giving you x amount of "free" minutes or calls, and you don't use them, then you lose them....

    Yeah but....

    You could have gone for 30 days, 60 days or 186 days.

    Not down to the phone company... down to you and what you went for

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    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: How they rip you off

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    No Lynn.

    When I was over there, I had a pre-paid account with Optus. 30 days after you charge your phone, any remaining credit is lost, and you have to pay to re-charge your phone again. I assume that the phone companies justify this on the basis that you said - if you have an account, giving you x amount of "free" minutes or calls, and you don't use them, then you lose them....
    Ouch! Yes that is different. I think the case I knew about was the phone company assuming if the phone hasn't been used at all for 6 or 12 months or whatever that its no longer used at all.

    What you are describing is more like the X 'free' texts per month, but if you don't use them, you lose them.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    I'm waiting for the letter to tell me that they are going to charge me £30 for this....
    I was charged £30 for being overdrawn for one day in a bank account that I had never been overdrawn ever, over years of being a customer. Same bank that charged me for the credit card thing. I don't use that account any more.

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    Re: How they rip you off

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    Yeah but....

    You could have gone for 30 days, 60 days or 186 days.

    Not down to the phone company... down to you and what you went for
    Ummm. Well, I wasn't given that option when I registered the new sim. If you can do that, then they certainly don't make it obvious!

    Wasn't a problem for me, since I was using my $30 recharge more often than every 30 days anyhow. But I'm sure that there are light users who do run out of time before they use all their credit...

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    Re: How they rip you off

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    *warning... RANT ahead*


    So, in October, I failed to pay my credit card balance by 2.67 pounds.
    Sorry I mean

    snip....extended rant

    .


    Caro - there is no need to pay these fees. They are unlawful. Check out the web site moneysavingexpert.com - in particular this: Credit Card Charges Reclaiming Guide: They're unlawful, get £100s back...

    Martin Lewis is the doyen of consumer finance. He knows his stuff.

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    Re: How they rip you off

    You all seem to forget (and Trampy, shame on you!) that these are commercial companies. Their charges/fees/interest rates and so forth are all carefully calculated by reference to the number of people who will, statistically, default on the deal over each annual period, and the penalties they levy for those defaults will be factored in to the turnover/profit calculations to allow them to make a profit which will be piffling in margin terms - possibly less than 1% - but works out nicely thank you very much in terms of sterling earnt.

    You might as well complain about having to pay for p&p when sending back items which you bought by post. It's just part of the deal.

    Caro had the right idea, though: phone up and explain why you think on this occasion you shouldn't be subject to the usual penalties. If your record is good, they probably will look for a way to let you off.

    Oh, and of course, if you didn't read the t&c properly in the first place - well more fool you..

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    Re: How they rip you off

    Quote Originally Posted by JiveLad View Post


    Caro - there is no need to pay these fees. They are unlawful.
    Thanks Jivelad but in that instance it's a not a fee at all - just an interest.
    What I find unacceptable (but I'm sure it's written somewhere in the terms and conditions, as Barry said my bad for not checking it more carefuly I suppose) is that the interest wasn't calculated on what was left of my balance, but on the full balance independently of the amount I repayed already - i.e. imagine I owed 1500 pounds at the end of october and only paid 1498 at the beginning of november. The interest for the november statement wasn't calculated on 2 pounds as one would reasonably expect, but on the full 1500 pounds, which I didn't even owe anymore. That's why I ended up paying 20 quids in interest, for a debt of 2 quids.

    Now in my book that's shocking, and I don't care what the terms and conditions say.

    Of course then you pay interest on interest the following month, and the whole thing just blows out of proportion.

    I'm just glad the girl on the phone saw my point and accepted to re-imburse the interest I paid - as I said it was easier to do than I expected, so don't hesitate phoning the credit card company when something like that happen...

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    Re: How they rip you off

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    Thanks Jivelad but in that instance it's a not a fee at all - just an interest.
    What I find unacceptable (but I'm sure it's written somewhere in the terms and conditions, as Barry said my bad for not checking it more carefuly I suppose) is that the interest wasn't calculated on what was left of my balance, but on the full balance independently of the amount I repayed already - i.e. imagine I owed 1500 pounds at the end of october and only paid 1498 at the beginning of november. The interest for the november statement wasn't calculated on 2 pounds as one would reasonably expect, but on the full 1500 pounds, which I didn't even owe anymore. That's why I ended up paying 20 quids in interest, for a debt of 2 quids.

    Now in my book that's shocking, and I don't care what the terms and conditions say.

    Of course then you pay interest on interest the following month, and the whole thing just blows out of proportion.

    I'm just glad the girl on the phone saw my point and accepted to re-imburse the interest I paid - as I said it was easier to do than I expected, so don't hesitate phoning the credit card company when something like that happen...
    I went 5p (yep thats 5 whole p) over my limit (we're talking about a 200quid limit here) and got charged 25 quid for the privilege. Luckily as it was my "1st" time they agreed to remove the charge, but next time they wouldn't be able too...I argued it if it was 5 quid then I wouldn't be so annoyed but 5p?

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    Re: How they rip you off

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanag View Post
    I went 5p (yep thats 5 whole p) over my limit (we're talking about a 200quid limit here) and got charged 25 quid for the privilege. Luckily as it was my "1st" time they agreed to remove the charge, but next time they wouldn't be able too...I argued it if it was 5 quid then I wouldn't be so annoyed but 5p?
    I refer the honourable lady to the point I made earlier.

    If somebody parks his car with his wheel 5" across your flower border, to you say 'Oh well, you're only 5" over the limit" or do you say 'There's the limit, that's the stopping point. What are you doing on the other side of it?'

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    Re: How they rip you off

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    I refer the honourable lady to the point I made earlier.

    If somebody parks his car with his wheel 5" across your flower border, to you say 'Oh well, you're only 5" over the limit" or do you say 'There's the limit, that's the stopping point. What are you doing on the other side of it?'
    Firstly thanks for calling me that, don't think I've ever been called that in my life!

    I get your point. But then if companies had a scaling fee system for whatever you had done wrong it prob wouldn't be so bad. Say a 2% charge for how much you went over your limit with a maximum fee of 25.00 or something like that. Missed payment went be 10% of current balance...

    p.s I regularly drive over my folks flower borders and dad just fixes them and tell me off
    Last edited by jeanie; 10th-December-2007 at 12:11 PM. Reason: changed me mind

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    Re: How they rip you off

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post

    If somebody parks his car with his wheel 5" across your flower border, to you say 'Oh well, you're only 5" over the limit" or do you say 'There's the limit, that's the stopping point. What are you doing on the other side of it?'
    On the subject of gardens, they are building 2 new houses across the road and often the gits park up over the kerb onto my lawn. They forget it is residential and treat the area as a building site.

    Wondering what to do... If I complain, they will prob wheel spin off. Thinking maybe digging in a few boards with nails, then covering with turf....

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    Re: How they rip you off

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    You all seem to forget (and Trampy, shame on you!) that these are commercial companies.
    Of course they are. And you're just a number to them, not a person, they don't care how long or how good a customer you have been. So they won't care that I'm not a customer anymore either then. Funny enough its when you stop doing business with them they suddenly want to offer you all these extras (eg I recently cancelled my BT line - opting to use a different company when getting broadband after BT recently charged me for calls they 'forgot' to bill me for over 6 months earlier, if I 'forgot' to pay my bill for 6 months it would be different!).

    Its easy to say 'they are commerical companies' but we aren't the only people annoyed at bank charges - as Jivelad pointed out many of these charges are being unfairly applied.

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    Re: How they rip you off

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Oh, and of course, if you didn't read the t&c properly in the first place - well more fool you..
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    If somebody parks his car with his wheel 5" across your flower border, to you say 'Oh well, you're only 5" over the limit" or do you say 'There's the limit, that's the stopping point. What are you doing on the other side of it?'
    The point that I, Lynn and others are trying to make here Barry is that despite the rules that you've agreed to when you signed up with the credit card company, you would expect some sort of sensible customer service attached to it (it's plain good business sense, when there are so many credit cards providers around, having that sort of customer service would differenciate one company greatly from others).

    I.e. a customer focused company would sort out the sort of 'anomalies' we talking about (25 pounds fee for going over your limit by a few pennies, failing to pay your balance in full by a ridiculous amount) without you having to even get very angry and ask for it. May be with a nice little letter to remind you of the said rules and show you how caring they are not to apply them to you on this instance...

    Or am I just day dreaming here ?

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    Re: How they rip you off

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    On the subject of gardens, they are building 2 new houses across the road and often the gits park up over the kerb onto my lawn. They forget it is residential and treat the area as a building site.

    Wondering what to do... If I complain, they will prob wheel spin off. Thinking maybe digging in a few boards with nails, then covering with turf....
    Make sure you have the details of the site operator - the developer, in other words.

    Next time there's a vehicle on your garden, do the following.

    "This vehicle, registration number xxxxxx, was photographed trespassing on my property at [time] on [date]. It is known to be operated by [x] who are providing [y] services to contractors in respect of the construction of properties at [address or description, eg. 'land adjacent to (address)]. Further trespasses will also be noted and recorded.

    On the completion of the construction works a landscape gardener will be instructed to repair damage to my lawn [and anything else] and the bill will be forwarded to [developer] for payment. IN the event that payment is not forthcoming then a claim will be made on the Small Claims Track in the County Court for damages. The claim will include the contemporary notes and digital photographs taken of all offending vehicles.

    A copy of this note has been sent to [developer]."

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    Re: How they rip you off

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    The point that I, Lynn and others are trying to make here Barry is that despite the rules that you've agreed to when you signed up with the credit card company, you would expect some sort of sensible customer service attached to it (it's plain good business sense, when there are so many credit cards providers around, having that sort of customer service would differenciate one company greatly from others).

    I.e. a customer focused company would sort out the sort of 'anomalies' we talking about (25 pounds fee for going over your limit by a few pennies, failing to pay your balance in full by a ridiculous amount) without you having to even get very angry and ask for it. May be with a nice little letter to remind you of the said rules and show you how caring they are not to apply them to you on this instance...

    Or am I just day dreaming here ?
    Well, anyone who expects good customer service from any large company these days is living in cloud cuckoo land. It's around, but the problem is that almost all large companies are run by cost accountants, or if not by them then pretty much according to the same principles. It's far easier to account for the cost of good customer relations than it is to account for the cost of bad customer relations.

    If companies wanted good customer relations we wouldn't have call centres, let alone ones in foreign countries, we wouldn't be subject to the strenuous efforts of the sales force to sell us extended warranties, shops wouldn't be so crowded with goods that trying to walk between one rack and the next is a job for the SAS, we wouldn't have people selling chicken injected with beef chemicals so that it will hold more water and thus sell for more per chicken, we wouldn't have adverts telling us that something is a 'Healthy Eating' choice becuase it's low fat while neglecting to say it's 55% sugar, and so on.

    And we wouldn't have sales people in the US persuading couples who could no more afford a mortgage than they could an F14 Tomcat that they should buy a house...

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    Re: How they rip you off

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Well, anyone who expects good customer service from any large company these days is living in cloud cuckoo land. It's around, but the problem is that almost all large companies are run by cost accountants, or if not by them then pretty much according to the same principles.
    Well, exactly. So if a company came around with a basic principle of 'caring for their customers' (and acting accordingly), they would be pretty much unique on the market.... I'd sign up for it, for a start. I suspect lots of other peeps would too.

    I don't know, may be it's impossible to combine both a large company and focused customer attention. I don't think so though, it's only impossible for as long as nobody has done it successfully.

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