Fuel prices - Can we do something?

[batnurse]

I drive a Suzuki Cappuccino (no jokes please, I've had them all) which has a 675cc engine - with a turbo, so it's still pretty nippy. I was a bit miffed to discover that the only categories as far as taxation goes is under or over 1600cc. Wasn't the government supposed to be encouraging people to drive smaller cars?
On the plus side, it costs me less than £20 to fill the tank, and I can take my top off in the summer

[TurboTomato]

Wasn't the government supposed to be encouraging people to drive smaller cars?

Not exactly - they've changed the rules a few times recently. If you buy a new car now then your tax will be based on your CO2 emissions (per mile or km, I can't remember which). Unfortunately though your Cappucino (which I like btw!) is small and while it probably does plenty of MPG, given that it's quite an old car, it's quite likely that its emissions are higher than a lot of modern cars.

[jeanie]

I drive a Suzuki Cappuccino (no jokes please, I've had them all) which has a 675cc engine - with a turbo, so it's still pretty nippy. I was a bit miffed to discover that the only categories as far as taxation goes is under or over 1600cc. Wasn't the government supposed to be encouraging people to drive smaller cars?
On the plus side, it costs me less than £20 to fill the tank, and I can take my top off in the summer

Just for the summer? Oh how boring BN... I can take my back end off whenever I like

[martingold]

Perhaps the reason that politicians and diplomats fly half way road to discuss global warming is that climate change affects the whole globe?

dont they have telephones internet etc then???

[jeanie]

dont they have telephones internet etc then???

THat doesn't involve spending as much of the taxpayers money though and it would mean that they would actually have to work, instead of skiving off traveling to the airports/sleeping on the flight/having a jolly

[martingold]

You know, of course, that we suck petrol out of holes in the ground?

I always thought it was a waste by product of other things made with oil they used to just burn it at the refineries until they found they could sell it to us at a premium

[martingold]

THat doesn't involve spending as much of the taxpayers money though and it would mean that they would actually have to work, instead of skiving off traveling to the airports/sleeping on the flight/having a jolly

oooh how could you say that about our elected ??? I am sure you really think they earn the money they pay themselves

[jeanie]

oooh how could you say that about our elected ??? I am sure you really think they earn the money they pay themselves

Well I 'd do they're job ok I think, am always told I answer a question like a politician, can't be that difficult surely? I mean you get loads of sex according to the papers and get on the telly lots too - ideal job!

[martingold]

Well I 'd do they're job ok I think, am always told I answer a question like a politician, can't be that difficult surely? I mean you get loads of sex according to the papers and get on the telly lots too - ideal job!

Ahhhhhh but your a woman we all know women can do better at most things than men

or so they tell us men anyway

[jeanie]

Ahhhhhh but your a woman we all know women can do better at most things than men

or so they tell us men anyway

Well you don't know until you try...

[martingold]

Well you don't know until you try...

[RedFox]

#Personally i feel this has nothing to do with global warming which is what we are lead to believe.

You're right, oil price is not connected to global warming. Some of the key causes are:
a) approaching (or having passed) world peak oil production (see Peak oil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia peak oil)
b) sourcing oil from increasingly unstable parts of the world
c) increased demand, especially from the developing world

So we could:
a) exploit the oil in the Arctic and Antarctic (and accelerate global warming some more - well, until that oil runs out too, of course)
b) stabilise the unstable countries by installing puppet governments or invading them
c) cut demand by using and investing in public transport, travelling less, developing sustainable alternative fuels, etc. (and also reduce the rate of global warming as a by-product)

I vote for c.

[Mezzosoprano]

How "really really serious" is this - how does this actually affect your quality of life? (I'm not trying to be unsympathic here, but just trying to understand your reasoning. How does it affect you? Are you a haulage contractor running a fleet of trucks?)

I recall that this did indeed have an effect - the ambulance service was running out of fuel and weren't able to transport patients effectively.

Very interesting Steve... especially considering that you are currently resident in a State where there is (as far as I remember - and it was 7 years ago) no tax on Fuel, so it's really, really cheap - how do I know this?? I know this because my last job in Australia was as an Acting Investigator for.... Queensland Government Fuel Subsidy Investigations....

Have a little sympathy for us eh? Buses are not reliable, and frankly few and far between. It's 16 miles from my house to the Nursery my son attends (and no, I couldn't get one closer) - so, I can't walk and a bicycle would be highly impractical when you've got an icicle shaped like a little boy sitting on the back.... And the cost of fuel is hitting our Christmas plans....

[SteveK]

Very interesting Steve... especially considering that you are currently resident in a State where there is (as far as I remember - and it was 7 years ago) no tax on Fuel, so it's really, really cheap - how do I know this?? I know this because my last job in Australia was as an Acting Investigator for.... Queensland Government Fuel Subsidy Investigations....

Fuel prices in Queensland are currently approximately 50% of the UK price. You see so many massive engined cars being driven around the city, and it horrifies me how much petrol is being consumed. A higher fuel price encourages people to consider smaller engined more fuel efficient cars.

Have a little sympathy for us eh? Buses are not reliable, and frankly few and far between. It's 16 miles from my house to the Nursery my son attends (and no, I couldn't get one closer) - so, I can't walk and a bicycle would be highly impractical when you've got an icicle shaped like a little boy sitting on the back.... And the cost of fuel is hitting our Christmas plans....

You've definitely got my sympathy if you can't get a nursery in Inverness - can't be pleasant having to drive that far every day. I agree that a bicycle isn't practical for a 16 mile journey, but bikes are a practical way of transporting a kid for virtually the whole year round in Inverness for moderate distances. It's quicker, cheaper, healthier and more environmentally friendly. What parent would wish to leave the world in a poorer state for their kiddies?

(It's a topic for a separate discussion thread, but there is an argument that the UK housing market with a high proportion of individual property ownership discourages mobility, and hence requires people spend a higher proportion of their time commuting/travelling).

[martingold]

You're right, oil price is not connected to global warming.

I wasnt talking about the price of oil when i said that i was talking about the price of petrol which in the UK has been artificially bumped by our governments greed for taxation for a very long time now as i said approximately 80p in the pound is tax so the oil/refinery price is very low comparatively
The governments have been telling us for about the last 5 years this is due to global warming from the C02 emissions caused by us wicked car drivers


if the governments really wanted us to use public transport for example they would help to make it cheap reliable clean and safe then i would be the first to use it because as i am human i am inherently lazy and don't really relish driving hundreds of miles to get somewhere
oh and btw there is a bus that goes past my place of work if i want to get there and leave at mid day otherwise i am forced to drive the 30 miles at 6 30 am.

[Caz]

I must admit I used to use public transport to get to work, but like many others have said, the time aspect of it all just isn't worth it. I used to have to leave the house at 7 a.m. if I wanted to get to work for 8.30 a.m. and then even if i left work at 4 p.m. I wouldn't get home until 5 p.m. at the earliest... a 10 minute car journey.. go figure.... also bus prices round here are pretty stupid... costing me £45 a month... the price / time / time wasted waiting around when the bus doesn't come doesn't fill me with enthusiasm to return to using public transport. So as for using the car less... sorry..... anyway.. there isn't much public transport that can get you to a freestyle in e.g Nottingham, Derby or even London and back from Doncaster.....

[SteveK]

I wasnt talking about the price of oil when i said that i was talking about the price of petrol which in the UK has been artificially bumped by our governments greed for taxation for a very long time now as i said approximately 80p in the pound is tax so the oil/refinery price is very low comparatively
The governments have been telling us for about the last 5 years this is due to global warming from the C02 emissions caused by us wicked car drivers

So what do you think should be done about climate change?

Or do you think that climate change doesn't exist?

[David Bailey]

So what do you think should be done about climate change?

I think that a simplistic "hit one minor symptom because it's easy and because it makes us feel better" approach is not sensible.

If you look here:
Image:Greenhouse Gas by Sector.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You see that the picture is extremely complex. If everyone on the planet stopped driving their cars today - in fact, if all motorised transportation, personal and industrial - stopped entirely- then you'd still only cut emissions by 14%. And, of course, you'd kill off all global trade, which would certainly cause the worst global depression in history.

For example:

According to the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations, the livestock industry is responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse gas emissions measured in CO2 equivalent, a higher share than transportation

So a far more effective - and realistic - measure would be if the planet went vegetarian. But that's not as glamorous as demonising the Evil Car...

Or do you think that climate change doesn't exist?

I think it exists. I think it's largely caused by human actions. And I think it's a problem - although I also think it's an opportunity. More summer holidays in the UK, for example

But I don't think the answer is to try to roll back the clock to the 19th century, or to try to force people into modes of behaviour they don't like. That never works, and it's also too authoritarian an approach for me.

[Blueshoes]

Petrol isn't expensive. Imagine how much it would cost if you had to run your car on mineral water. Or orange juice. (Neither, of course, currently carries a 60% tax surcharge, either.) Or wine.

I take your point, however I don't usually drink 6 gallons of mineral water or orange juice every week. Or wine. Actually, if you bought cheap wine in France at 1 Euro a bottle it would work out cheaper than petrol.

In an average month (taking out holidays etc) I drive over 1500 miles. Driving very carefully in my diesel (better fuel economy) that costs me about £120 a month in fuel. Which is more than I spend on food.

Any increase in fuel prices (on top of all the other inspirational ways this government finds to tax me) cuts into my disposable income, which was pretty meagre to start off with.

So what are the alternatives? I could probably use public transport to get to work by taking two trains and walking 2 miles each way, turning a 15 minute journey into nearly an hour and a half. Public transport in my area is both inconvenient and ridiculously expensive. I can't get to any venues easily on public transport, but I suppose I could always give up dancing.

Yes I'm concerned about global warming (and recycle in my thoughtfully provided green bin) but unless the public transport system is dramatically improved or I completely change my lifestyle - including giving up dancing - I can't see what I can do about it.

[Barry Shnikov]

So what do you think should be done about climate change?

Or do you think that climate change doesn't exist?

I think we should be making reasonable efforts to keep the acceleration of global warming to a minimum.

But most of our money and effort should go on coping with global warming. We cannot, even with spending of $trillions over decades, do much more than reduce globale warming by a trivial amount, or delay it by a trivial period. In the meantime, other things where that money is far more urgently needed - provision of clean water in third world countries, reducing malaria, attacking the spread of AIDS - will go begging.