View Poll Results: Should the In & Out be scrapped from the beginners lesson?

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  • Yes

    16 28.07%
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    41 71.93%
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Thread: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lessons?

  1. #21
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lesons?

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    In class or in freestyle?
    I only lead, and I don't over-decorate my in&outs, so it will never annoy me in freestyle.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

  2. #22
    Commercial Operator StokeBloke's Avatar
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    Cool Re: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lessons?

    I danced last night with two muggles... the in and out played a large part in both dances. Both ladies had a fun dance and were able to follow pretty much the entire dance they had with me.... but in both cases I started off with the in and out and progressed things from there.

    It's a brilliant, simple and intuitive move that makes a solid building block to dance off of. Strangely though, in neither dance did I feel the need to do a s*mi-c*rcl* and st*p b*ck

  3. #23
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    Re: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lessons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
    It definately shouldn't be scrapped from beginners lessons!! I feel it should be taught in every beginners lesson as it's the best move through which a Ceroc teacher can actually teach basic lead and follow.

    I think the in & out should be in every beginners routine.
    Absolutely.

    When I teach, I use it to demonstrate basic compression and leverage, keeping the hands low, frame & movement. It's the start (essentials) of every class I teach. Would never drop it.....

    TBH, IMHO any teacher that doesn't teach it (correctly, and at least semi-regularly), isn't really doing a good job (unless they have another way of teaching all the above), as I think that it's fundamental....

  4. #24
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lessons?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    When I teach, I use it to demonstrate basic compression and leverage, keeping the hands low, frame & movement. It's the start (essentials) of every class I teach.
    Its also much, much easier to lead a beginner to step back in any move if they have learnt the in and out, because the basics of leading a step back is already there. A lot easier than getting them to step back by waving their hand around in a semi-circle!

  5. #25
    Registered User Fusioneer's Avatar
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    Re: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lessons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    Its also much, much easier to lead a beginner to step back in any move if they have learnt the in and out, because the basics of leading a step back is already there. A lot easier than getting them to step back by waving their hand around in a semi-circle!

  6. #26
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    Re: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lesons?

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    I only lead, and I don't over-decorate my in&outs, so it will never annoy me in freestyle.
    Ahh, I thought the decoration you were talking about was from followers. It seems like you mean something else. Could you explain?

  7. #27
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lesons?

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    Ahh, I thought the decoration you were talking about was from followers. It seems like you mean something else. Could you explain?
    I mean when they are taught with, e.g., strange circular motions of the hands. I guess I've also experienced followers back-leading such things, but usually only in class.

    It's probably also worth saying that I don't come across this a great deal – probably only when I have travelled outside of Scotland.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

  8. #28
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    Re: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lesons?

    The in-and-out has been taught as part of the Ceroc Essentials warm-up at all the CC venues when I have got there early enough (rarely ). In the class proper it is often skipped through with "you've already done that". I do not like the two-handed version, but enjoy a single-handed in-and-out in freestyle.

  9. #29
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lesons?

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    Ahh, I thought the decoration you were talking about was from followers. It seems like you mean something else. Could you explain?
    I sometimes decorate in and outs, more often as leader than follower because as follower if I'm doing something to fit the music I don't know how many in and outs the leader will lead, and I can be all set to do something and the move is over...

    As I only ever lead beginners (I'm not very good at leading and really don't enjoy it, therefore only do it when I have to) I would 'decorate' by doing stuff with my feet (don't ask me what exactly, I can't remember!) so that I'm not interfering with the connection with upper body, arms and frame that I'm trying to establish with the beginner follower.

  10. #30
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    Re: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lesons?

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    No. But scrap the stupid semi-circle to the left/right
    I think Ceroc should keep the semi-circle

  11. #31
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    Re: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lessons?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    When I teach, I use it to demonstrate basic compression and leverage, keeping the hands low, frame & movement. It's the start (essentials) of every class I teach. Would never drop it.....
    I agree with that 100% but tend to think of that as purely a warm up and I'd never tell the class "this move is called the In & Out". I'd also never teach it as a move in the beginners' routine.

    As for the semi-circle, keep it definitely! Sure I'd make the semi-circle smaller and smaller for more able dancers but how many 'beginner' dancers would step back at the same time without a semi-circle?

  12. #32
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lessons?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardP View Post
    As for the semi-circle, keep it definitely! Sure I'd make the semi-circle smaller and smaller for more able dancers but how many 'beginner' dancers would step back at the same time without a semi-circle?
    Umm, maybe by teaching an actual lead for a step back instead of a signal? And starting a move with some connection and a gentle push back?

    I loathe the semi circle. Its one of the reasons I avoid going to beginners classes these days as followers backleading the semi circle annoys me so much.

  13. #33
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    Re: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lessons?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardP View Post
    how many 'beginner' dancers would step back at the same time without a semi-circle?
    I don't teach the semi-circle and find that all of the beginners step back when compression is applied into the followers hand. However, I think that Ceroc, and any other competitor to me, should keep in the semi-circle - it's one of the things that makes my classes different from Ceroc, MoJive, etc

  14. #34
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    Re: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lessons?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardP View Post
    As for the semi-circle, keep it definitely! Sure I'd make the semi-circle smaller and smaller for more able dancers but how many 'beginner' dancers would step back at the same time without a semi-circle?
    It's one of the few things that I'd change about Ceroc.

    When I teach in Oz & NZ for Ceroc, it's great, cos they've all dropped it over there, so I don't have to teach it. When I teach in this country, I'm told that I have to teach it. I dream that one day they'll stop doing it!

  15. #35
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lessons?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    I dream that one day they'll stop doing it!
    I had a dream a few days ago about being completely ignored at a Milonga, then suddenly having two gorgeous women come up and hug me.

    Well, whilst we're talking about weird dreams...

  16. #36
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    Re: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lessons?

    Oh god yeh - followers backleading the semi circle annoys me too but it's so easily rectified.

    Maybe I'm still too fresh out of teacher training - either way as TheTramp says we have to teach it

  17. #37
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lessons?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardP View Post
    Oh god yeh - followers backleading the semi circle annoys me too but it's so easily rectified.
    Not easily rectified in class. If you try to resist it, or indeed often if you try to drop the semi circle and just lead a step back, you would get a confused look. You can't stand in class and contradict what the teacher is telling them from the stage - that's unfair on both the teacher and the beginners. You just have to go with it.

    In freestyle with beginners its easier to avoid but in class the easiest way to avoid it is avoid the class.

    I know it is 'the way' of teaching it, I just don't like it.

  18. #38
    Registered User Fusioneer's Avatar
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    Re: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lessons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I don't teach the semi-circle and find that all of the beginners step back when compression is applied into the followers hand. However, I think that Ceroc, and any other competitor to me, should keep in the semi-circle - it's one of the things that makes my classes different from Ceroc, MoJive, etc
    (eh hem.. from another non-ceroc teacher that doesnt do the (yawns) "semi circle and step back"... )

  19. #39
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    Re: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lessons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fusioneer View Post
    (eh hem.. from another non-ceroc teacher that doesnt do the (yawns) "semi circle and step back"... )
    Don't let on. Tell them they're great. Of course they should keep the semi-circle...

    .. crop circle and any other kind of circle

  20. #40
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    Re: Should the In & Out be scrapped from lessons?

    Have to agree with Jamie and The Tramp that the In and Out should be kept as a beginners move. It may seem boring and pointless to intermediate dancers but is invaluable in teaching tension and basic lead and follow technique on a beginner's first night at Ceroc. I taxi and when I taxi'd last week it was a routine with no in and out ... the 4 brand new people really struggled with this routine (yo-yo, shoulder drop, first move, manspin). Therefore in IMHO the in and out is a basic starting block from which to build on.

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