Should you challenge?

[kiwi_clay]

Is it not possible to put in say
"That ain't quite how I recollect......,",
or even better PM them (BCC to moderator if that bad), suggesting they edit there post for accuracy,

[fletch]

I was thinking of people you personally know. Who make claims which are 100% untrue.


Not about me though, about those who make claims, which are total fabrications of the truth.

Should we say it is not true, or sit and listen to the bending of the truth?

I would PM the pearson and ask them to consider what they are wrighting, if this would add fule to the falmes, try neg rep.

why would people lie, and why are some of you so distroustful? I myself have had several comments and pm's suggesting i am either some sort of plant or prankster. Its not nice!

cos some people do, that just human nature, were not all the same.

We have had plants on hear stiring things up, I was considered not real for a nano second when I joined I mean is there such a person that would shoot from the hip with there opinions and be a newbie

We have a had a thread recently on hear by someone claiming that some thing about them was untrue, I had PM saying that was true, I guess that peason wan'ted to put things behind them, we all make mistakes, in my book the biggest was trying to lie your way out of it.

If youv'e done it pay the price take it on the chin, move on

[David Bailey]

This is a discussion forum.
Feel free to discuss.
If a discussion violates the rules, report the relevant post.
Moderators aren't here to enforce Truth, Justice and The Scottish Way - they're here to ensure people keep to the rules.

If in doubt, read the rules - which, it seems, almost nobody does

If the rules aren't clear, or if they miss something out, then let us know.

Oh, did I mention that there are rules? Cos, there are...

[Caro]

I myself have had several comments and pm's suggesting i am either some sort of plant or prankster. Its not nice!

can we just clarify, that wasn't me! (really)

[David Franklin]

If a discussion violates the rules, report the relevant post.
Moderators aren't here to enforce Truth, Justice and The Scottish Way - they're here to ensure people keep to the rules.

If in doubt, read the rules - which, it seems, almost nobody does

If the rules aren't clear, or if they miss something out, then let us know.

I think it's unclear what to do if a poster is lying. Rereading the rules, I guess

12. Any attempts to defraud or deceive our members may result in your account being suspended.

is the relevant one. But that rule doesn't say anything about what people should (or shouldn't) do if they see a post that they think contains a lie.

In practice, people tend to write a rebuttal that will often end up "naming and shaming". Now I'm not saying that's right, and it does break the forum rules. But the fact that it happens moderately frequently, and that people who I don't generally think of as troublemakers have done it shows it's a natural response. So I think there needs to be a lot more guidance from the moderators here, rather than simply deleting the relevant post or threads.

If we're supposed to report the post to the moderators, I note that the RTM comment box isn't really adequate for the length and complexity of response you might need when explaining why a post contains a lie.

[Ghost]

If we're supposed to report the post to the moderators, I note that the RTM comment box isn't really adequate for the length and complexity of response you might need when explaining why a post contains a lie.

An option if you need more space, want to send attachments etc is just to PM Franck directly ccing the other mods, which I believe is basically what the "Report Post" does.

[David Franklin]

An option if you need more space, want to send attachments etc is just to PM Franck directly ccing the other mods, which I believe is basically what the "Report Post" does.

Well, except some of us don't keep track of who all the other mods are, etc.

I have actually asked a mod about this in the past, and basically been told "there isn't really a way of sending a PM to all the mods".

[Ghost]

Well, except some of us don't keep track of who all the other mods are, etc.

I have actually asked a mod about this in the past, and basically been told "there isn't really a way of sending a PM to all the mods".

Although I haven't used it in exactly the way the thread suggests, I have found sending a PM just to Franck works perfectly well - I gather they discuss important stuff if necessary.

As an aside I think the Mods are currently

Franck
David James
Ducasi
Kevin F
Tiggerbabe
Lory

(either way it's pretty easy to remember David James is a Mod )

[Martin]

Is it not possible to put in say
"That ain't quite how I recollect......,",
or even better PM them (BCC to moderator if that bad), suggesting they edit there post for accuracy,

It is a difficult one.

I have sometimes been really dumb on the open forum and questioned things people say in the wrong way and I have sometimes gone over the top.
Not something I am proud of, sometimes I just, "let it go", forgetting that it is open for all to see.

The only time I would use bcc, is when sending jokes and protecting peoples e-mail addresses.

I do not think it good practice to send a "private" message to someone and bcc a "higher level" into the post... Personally I find that underhand.

In Minnie M's example of someone claiming to have danced x years on the open forum, when I know for a fact it was not true - due to the fact I was there, when he/she took part in their first ever class. I sent a personal PM, as I knew the person, considered him/her a friend, the lie continues, but then that is what he/she wants to do.

I did openly challenge a certain Latin style dancer, who 100% lied about who he/she was. I was happy to do that, even though he/she was not happy and wanted to openly lie and decieve people.

So if you are happy to lie, or come across as far more "able" or "experienced" in a dance style than you really are... should we go with it, or should we say... actually, no, that is untrue?

[Martin]

(either way it's pretty easy to remember David James is a Mod )

I am a rocker...

Does he wear silly string ties, and drive a hair dryer, granny wobbler bike?

Should we do a Quadraphinia style fight on Brighton Seafront?

[Martin]

The oddest claim in our area is a teacher who claims to have been "self-taught" as if it was a claim to fame. He certainly dances like nobody I know so it could be true

This one is really interesting...

I cook nothing like my mum, Wednesday night, every week, is not fish finger night, and I do not use the same 3 vegtables every day.

But I am not self taught, I experimented, sure, but I also read books and talked to people, and watched cooking shows. So I was taught by books, other people and by tele.

If totally self taught, it would infer you had no outside influences...

Does his name start with a J?

Who used to come to my classes and travel to London to do classes?

[David Bailey]

(either way it's pretty easy to remember David James is a Mod )

Indeed, for 1 whole year now...

Hmmm... there are some good points made here. I guess my main concern is that I can see us being asked to take sides in disputes, in the name of rooting out untruths or whatever - and that's really not our job as I see it. To quote the great Alec Guinness, many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

We have established mechanisms for dealing with offensive posts and posters. I think these mechanisms work reasonably well at the moment.

As for the rules, the general posting ethos should be covered in the "Mi casa, su casa" section, which attempt to cover the tone of posts - especially relevant is the bit regarding common decency.

[Ghost]

Indeed, for 1 whole year now...

It's been a year already...

I am a rocker...

Does he wear silly string ties, and drive a hair dryer, granny wobbler bike?

Should we do a Quadraphinia style fight on Brighton Seafront?

If you listen carefully you can hear the teenagers Googling to find out what your on about

My own personal take is to remember that if you don't know the person posting, bear that in mind when reading their advice. Someone may have done MJ for 20 years and still be rubbish . Or the method that works brilliantly for them actually works for a different reason than they think . Not to mention the whole "describing actions in text" problem. I think the rep system can make this worse. Just because someone's made 1,000 very funny posts does not mean they have any clue how to dance.

That's why I don't have a post in the introductions section and I often buffer suggestions with "I think". I don't want people thinking "He knows what he's talking about" - read, be cynical, try if you want

[MartinHarper]

If we're supposed to report the post to the moderators, I note that the RTM comment box isn't really adequate for the length and complexity of response you might need when explaining why a post contains a lie.

Give a brief summary and suggest the moderators PM you if they need more information.

[Gus]

Hmmm... there are some good points made here. I guess my main concern is that I can see us being asked to take sides in disputes, in the name of rooting out untruths or whatever - and that's really not our job as I see it. To quote the great Alec Guinness, many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

There is also a case of 'who' is perpetuating the lie. There have been comments before about using 'plants' to say things. As Msrtin says, there have been a few people claiming various expertise of qualifications that are patently untrue. There have also been comments about freestyles/venues where the poster has been 'economical with the truth'. These facts can be misleading, with dancers turning up to events and being disappointed. Its probably unreasonable to expect these comments to be policed but it is annoying all the same.

[Isis]

IMO If a person posts lies on an open forum, they should be prepared to be challenged on an open forum.

If you want to challenge someone you should consider what your own motivation is. If you want to prevent harm to other people or to that person, you should go ahead and challenge but without aggression.

If your motivation is simply to put the person down, humiliate them, make a dig at them beacause you don't like them, the challenge will probably backfire on you.

Exaggerations such as 'I've been dancing for millions of years and am brilliant and know everything' (which is totally true in my case ) are probably best left alone as I'm sure most people are smart enough to see through them for themselves.

[Andy McGregor]

Does his name start with a J?

[Martin]

IMO If a person posts lies on an open forum, they should be prepared to be challenged on an open forum.

IMO

If your motivation is simply to put the person down, ....... the challenge will probably backfire on you.

I have been guilty of this a couple of times.... not something I am proud of.... something for me not to do.
Normally happens when posts come across as "expert opinion" when in reality, they are far from "expert" IMO.

[Martin]

Cool... I won the guessing game.

Maybe he or she was self taught, but only went to MANY dance classes, MJ and Lindy "just to socialise".

Being in the rotation whilst the teacher was going on about "who knows what", could have been part of the "social process".



In the same way, I could have gone to a heap of cooking classes, but still be "self taught"... as those experienced chef's know nothing. I was just there to "socialise".... I knew it all before, but was only there to, um, socialise....

[Andy McGregor]

Cool... I won the guessing game.

Maybe he or she was self taught, but only went to MANY dance classes, MJ and Lindy "just to socialise".

Being in the rotation whilst the teacher was going on about "who knows what", could have been part of the "social process".



In the same way, I could have gone to a heap of cooking classes, but still be "self taught"... as those experienced chef's know nothing. I was just there to "socialise".... I knew it all before, but was only there to, um, socialise....

My fascination with this claim isn't that it can't be true. It's that the claim a dance teacher is "self-taught" is being made as if it's a good thing

I think a claim like this is made due to ego "I'm better than everybody, therefore nobody could have made me this good".