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Thread: The French are back at it...

  1. #1
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    The French are back at it...

    well it looks like my dear compatriotes are back at their favorite activity... strikes.

    Sometimes, I do think that the British are a bit too easy going, but let me explain what the French (well, a vocal minority in fact, but strong-minded enough to cause chaos in the whole country) are on strike for.

    First, you'd have to understand that we have a lot of civil servants (the trains company, gas and electricity, some cities public transportation (Paris is one), postal services, the main telephone company, and of course the Administration, from cities to departments to regions to country, including police and education) are under what we call 'régimes spéciaux' for their pension, i.e. they have to work less years to get a better pension than people in the private sector (2.5 to 10 years less).

    You'd also have to know that once you are a civil servant, there is no way in the world you can be fired: it's lifetime employment guaranteed. That's a pretty big priviledge in a country where unemployment rate flirts with 10%.

    Given that the retired population is growing and the working one shrinking, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that we will have to work more to pay our parents' pensions. Last year the governement increased the duration of the working life by a couple of years in the private sector (40 to 42 I think). This year it wants to align the 'régimes spéciaux' on all the other ones - which is one of the reasons Sarkozy was elected.

    So, the strikes:
    - Railway and Paris public transport systems: against the 'régimes spéciaux' alignment law (90% of trains cancelled)
    - Students: against a law that would make universities more independants (but they work with the railway people as they will be blocking stations - so the 10% remaining trains won't go anywhere). By the way they block stations by sitting on the rails - nice and simple when you have big numbers
    - gas / electricity: against 'régimes spéciaux' (note that those guys don't pay their gas and electricity either)
    - All civil servants: against staff reduction (only achieved through not replacing those who retire, we're not talking firing people here) and 'for salaries' ()
    - Education: against staff reduction (same story, the basis is that number of pupil decrease)
    - Mail service and telecommunication (this is funny) 'for employment, salaries and public service'


    That begs the question... what sort of world do those people think they are living in ???

    For info, polls show that 60% of the population is in favour of the government (i.e. for everybody to have the same pension conditions).

    Yet the country will be paralysed tomorrow and probably for several weeks. Economic implications of that, anybody ???

    Just thinking about small companies struggling and not receiving payments on time, people saving all year to go on holiday having their flight cancelled, etc, makes me really want to slap them all. Bunch of lazy assisted loosers.

    And all that because of a minority, when the majority has VOTED for all this to happen. Does democratie means anything anymore ???

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    Registered User jiveaddicted's Avatar
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    Re: The French are back at it...

    Vive le strike

    M ;-)

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    Registered User SteveK's Avatar
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    Re: The French are back at it...

    And the other thing that Caro doesn't mention; lots of the competent younger folk go and live/work overseas due to the restrictive employment laws. I used to know several french engineers working in London, who would have liked to remain in France, but there were few decent jobs to apply for. Net result - lots of the best and most productive staff work for UK/USA plc rather than France.

    Is this the reason that you (Caro) choose to live/work overseas, or is it the grey scenery/seagulls/pizza crunch?

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    Registered User Whitebeard's Avatar
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    Re: The French are back at it...

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveK View Post

    And the other thing that Caro doesn't mention; lots of the competent younger folk go and live/work overseas due to the restrictive employment laws. I used to know several french engineers working in London, who would have liked to remain in France, but there were few decent jobs to apply for. Net result - lots of the best and most productive staff work for UK/USA plc rather than France.

    Is this the reason that you (Caro) choose to live/work overseas, or is it the grey scenery/seagulls/pizza crunch?
    On the other hand I not long ago bought, on its merits, a car of French manufacture by a French owned company in the hotly contested super-mini category. Was there a British built, British owned, alternative ? No.

    What does it say that British workers can produce competently under Japanese or German management but not under British management ? Nissan ? Honda ? BMW ?
    Last edited by Whitebeard; 13th-November-2007 at 04:05 AM.

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    Registered User SteveK's Avatar
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    Re: The French are back at it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitebeard View Post
    On the other hand I not long ago bought, on its merits, a car of French manufacture by a French owned company in the hotly contested super-mini category. Was there a British built, British owned, alternative ? No.

    What does it say that British workers can produce competently under Japanese or German management but not under British management ? Nissan ? Honda ? BMW ?
    Sorry - I wasn't trying to be derogatory to French industry, just making a comment based on personal experience.

    One reason I've heard for the poor UK car industry is the strength of the UK motorsport industry. So much of the world motorsport industry is based in the UK (lots of Formula 1 teams, the US Indy Cars chassis manufacturers, and lots of rally cars). Which is more likely to attract the talented engineers - designing a Austin Maestro or a Mclaren F1 car?

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    Registered User Whitebeard's Avatar
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    Re: The French are back at it...

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveK View Post

    Sorry - I wasn't trying to be derogatory to French industry, just making a comment based on personal experience.

    One reason I've heard for the poor UK car industry is the strength of the UK motorsport industry. So much of the world motorsport industry is based in the UK (lots of Formula 1 teams, the US Indy Cars chassis manufacturers, and lots of rally cars). Which is more likely to attract the talented engineers - designing a Austin Maestro or a Mclaren F1 car?

    Yes I think when it comes to top talent, whatever the field, the UK is up there with the best. Though, more often than not, sadly lacking in the capacity to carry it through into the majority marketplace.

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: The French are back at it...

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveK View Post
    And the other thing that Caro doesn't mention; lots of the competent younger folk go and live/work overseas due to the restrictive employment laws. I used to know several french engineers working in London, who would have liked to remain in France, but there were few decent jobs to apply for.
    Isn't London France's seventh largest city (based on numbers of French residents) or something? Sarkozy thought so, in his speech earlier in the year he said:
    London, which has become one of the great French cities
    Quite a good speech actually, worth reading.

    As for the strikes, they've been on the cards for months, obviously - Sarko's been planning this for ages, it's his Thatcher moment, and I'd be amazed if he backed down. In fact, I think he wants this strike, to demonstrate how incredibly behind-the-times the unions are.

    I think Sarkozy's the best thing to happen to France in decades - I only wish we had someone with that energy, ambition and drive in charge here.

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    Re: The French are back at it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitebeard View Post
    On the other hand I not long ago bought, on its merits, a car of French manufacture by a French owned company in the hotly contested super-mini category. Was there a British built, British owned, alternative ? No.

    The british gov stopped financial backing of the British car industry some time ago....

    The French Gov seriously back the French car manufacturers... Megga Francs or Euros...

    And most French people buy French cars...

    No contest.

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    Re: The French are back at it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    Yet the country will be paralysed tomorrow and probably for several weeks. Economic implications of that, anybody ???

    Just thinking about small companies struggling and not receiving payments on time, people saving all year to go on holiday having their flight cancelled, etc, makes me really want to slap them all. Bunch of lazy assisted loosers.

    And all that because of a minority, when the majority has VOTED for all this to happen. Does democratie means anything anymore ???
    The French as a nation have been complicit in their government giving in to strikes - on everything from reasonable to absolutlely trivial matters - for decades. Sometimes those strikes have had fatal and unjustifiable knock-on effects on other nations - UK hauliers who have gone out of business because their trucks have been stuck on French autoroutes unable to return to the UK to fulfil contracts. Everyone in France thinks that it is their inalienable right to prevent the government from introducing legislation they personally dislike by whatever means are available, regardless of how necessary the changes may be.

    In my view, strikes are only acceptable as tactics in disputes between worker and employer, and trying to use them to influence general policy is an attempt to pervert democratic institutions.

    This is an instance of 'sow the wind...'

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    Re: The French are back at it...

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveK View Post
    lots of the competent younger folk go and live/work overseas due to the restrictive employment laws. I used to know several french engineers working in London, who would have liked to remain in France, but there were few decent jobs to apply for. Net result - lots of the best and most productive staff work for UK/USA plc rather than France.

    Is this the reason that you (Caro) choose to live/work overseas, or is it the grey scenery/seagulls/pizza crunch?
    I first came up here to do an MSc, but I knew then that I wanted to work abroad at the start of my career at least. It's more a personality thing really, I like new challenges and I felt claustrophobic in France. Plus the world is so big, it would be a shame to stay in France for ever...

    I stayed (well, so far ) because employment opportunities are much better in this country, for a start companies actually want to recruit graduates (in France the mindset is different, they want people with experience), but also the mindset is a lot free-er. I find the French so narrow-minded in some respects, some companies still recruit you depending on which school (universities) you attended and what was your grade at your last math exam.
    In France people are put in boxes that are difficult to escape... well I don't fit in a box And I found that the UK liked that, so here I am.

    Now that I work here and earn almost twice as much as my friends, it would be very hard for me to come back to France and accept a lower income and probably less career opportunities. I'm not saying never, but not in the near future.

    And when I see those MORONS going on strike for nothing it drives me mad anyway... I'm flying BA at Christmas btw... just in case

  11. #11
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    Re: The French are back at it...

    I think Sarkozy's the best thing to happen to France in decades - I only wish we had someone with that energy, ambition and drive in charge here.

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    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: The French are back at it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    Plus the world is so big, it would be a shame to stay in France for ever...
    So you went to Aberdeen...?

    Even Beo said he gets bored in Aberdeen!

    Actually what you say about France/the French and living in Britain sounds very like the reasons my French friend Corinne (who is rather a free spirit) would give.

    She used to work as a journalist in London. Then she went off to live in Syria, learn Arabic, spend her time out clubbing (she's in her mid 40's and apparently a bit unusual over there!) and working for the UN. Last I heard she'd "crossed the border", but didn't say which one. Which reminds me, I must e-mail her...

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    Re: The French are back at it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    So you went to Aberdeen...?
    Aberdeen was exotic in the fact that I didn't speak / understand the language that well, I got to work on platform offshore and went to work by helicopter, I was very often both the youngest person and only female on board, I got to spend 4 months in Cameroon (you lots have heard about that ), etc...

    But yes now comes the time that I need a change of scenery again. I'm working on it

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    Re: The French are back at it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    went to work by helicopter
    And how many of us can say that?

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    Re: The French are back at it...

    Anyway - not that my life isn't a very interesting subject in itself, back on thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    The French as a nation have been complicit in their government giving in to strikes - on everything from reasonable to absolutlely trivial matters - for decades.
    That's very true. Culturally speaking, in France there is some sort of pride about being rebellious (I, of course, got that too ). I'm not sure why that is.
    Probably the exaltation of the working class and social fights by authors like Zola have contributed, and more recently the Resistance in the second world war. Who isn't a son or daughter of the resistance in France ? A lot of what you see in movies and books is about exaltation of the bravery shown by the resistants. Or course there was some of that, but very few people seem to realise that things were a tad more complicated and a lot less black and white. My dad when he was just a few months old survived the Germans who raided his house because my grand mother hid him in a bush. I was told that this happened as a result of a bunch of youngsters who got paid a few francs by the americans to do stupid things, like sending a grenande on a german car when there was really no other plan behind - the Germans just got furious and killed a lot of people in the village.
    Anyway, different topic again.


    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    In my view, strikes are only acceptable as tactics in disputes between worker and employer, and trying to use them to influence general policy is an attempt to pervert democratic institutions.
    Indeed. I wish more people realised that. And as for those who go on strike 'by solidarity'... (last year the railway got on strike by solidarity to the gas people who got partly privatised to respect EU laws).
    They really have nothing better to do than wait for The State to provide for them. They're not going to go very far that way...

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    Re: The French are back at it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    That's very true. Culturally speaking, in France there is some sort of pride about being rebellious (I, of course, got that too ). I'm not sure why that is.
    *cough* chip *cough*

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    They really have nothing better to do than wait for The State to provide for them. They're not going to go very far that way...
    It's always striking that the French people I meet in the UK seem to express this opinion very strongly - only natural I guess, but I've heard a few other French expats say exactly this.

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