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Thread: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

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    Registered User Feelingpink's Avatar
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    Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    Calling all DJs ..................
    Isn't the job of a good DJ to "READ" the floor

    I thought they were given an agenda of what the organisers would like them to play - then they should follow their "DJ experience" and read the floor and adapt the music accordingly
    ...
    What is frustrating is when a DJ may well be doing their job in keeping a floor full - of Westies ... when there are people who want non-Westie music sitting around - or the opposite could be true. Because the floor is full, the same speed music continues.

    In the MJ v WCS balancing act, could we have clear communication in promoting the event & on the evening? If, for instance, you knew there was going to be WCS speed music between 9pm and 10pm, then if that's not your bag, you could settle down to chat with friends over a drink, without thinking that the music could change at any time (& you would want to rush over for a dance). You would also know that you are going to get music that is to your taste after 10pm. If you know the mix before an event, then you can make an informed choice about attending or not - and if you're a pushmi-pullu (doing both), then you're happy either way. Surely managing expectations like this would make for much happier dancers?

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    Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    :exasperated smiley: you'll never get me, will you?
    I thought it was you that wanted to "get" me
    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    When I wrote 'Andy McG thinks that there are plenty of MJ dancers etc' I was merely correcting your previous post where you stated your opinion as if it was the only and universal Truth, which you seem to do very often.
    That is because it is not my "opinion" it is my observation. Of course, it depends on your definition of "plenty". In my area there is one WCS class on a Tuesday in the same venue as my Thursday class, it is fairly well attended with about 50 dancers. AFAIK ALL the people who attend it have come from MJ - a significant proportion of them are people who attend my MJ class on a Thursday.

    I often tell people about the WCS class as I think it's good for people to try different dances. I would probably go myself if I wasn't teaching on a Tuesday - although I would probably be going to Argentine Tango classes if I had the choice and the time/strength.

    I have also observed many MJ dancers attending WCS workshops at MJ weekenders. Therefore, it is a truth that many MJ dancers would like to do WCS - the evidence is there in their attendance at WCS classes and workshops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    I'm giving up.
    I'm sure you can win this, don't give up now, I'm about to roll over - honest

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    Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

    Quote Originally Posted by sidney View Post
    In terms of affordabilty it would work out too expensive .... where with my salsa it is £40 for eight lessons and it is local.
    so no contest.
    Fair enough, everyone has their own circumstances to work to.

    Interesting you mention salsa as I danced with someone on Sat night who was dancing salsa footwork (it fitted the track playing) and I was really struggling to adjust my lead to it (I have never been taught any salsa) and it made me appreciate that my occasional habit of breaking into WCS footwork patterns when dancing MJ with someone who isn't familiar with WCS may make the dance a similar struggle for them. But I find it very hard once I start tripling to seamlessly slip back to marching

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    Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy Dave View Post
    In general are 'Westies' happy to continue sharing a dance floor or will they fly once the inevitable smaller WCS weekenders start to spring up?
    Personally I don't think there are enough WCS dancers sufficiently confident in social dancing to sustain a pure WCS weekender other than Weston (which in my view is competition first, social second). There is a huge base of people wanting to learn the dance if evidence of class numbers at weekenders is to be believed but also, I suspect, a pretty high dropout rate. I think there are a variety of reasons for the dropout rate but it's definitely there and until more people are able to dance WCS socially more rgularly to build their freestyle confidence then I don't see a WCS weekender being viable. And on the other side of the coin (and contrary to some people's belief) most of the experienced WCS dancers that I know enjoy the buzz and atmosphere of large MJ events - meeting lots of new people, etc. That element might be missing from a weekender that drew from too small a pool of people.

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    Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

    I think Andy's question could be rephrased as something like "Why isn't there much Modern Jive at MJ weekenders?"

    And it's a good question - MJ will never progress if everyone including the organisers think of it as a second-class dance.

    Salsa weekenders teach salsa - OK, they may have a mixed one like Latin Explosion, but at least they're upfront about it.

    AT weekenders teach AT - yes, they teach different flavours, but they don't suddenly teach, I dunno, salsa or something.

    Whereas MJ weekenders sometimes seem to teach everything but MJ.

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    Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    I think Andy's question could be rephrased as something like "Why isn't there much Modern Jive at MJ weekenders?"


    I think it would also be helpful if there wasn't such an attitude of "The main hall is for s**t dancers". It's not only cliquey, but these days I'd say it's also a huge waste of the largest dance area. You don't have to play crap in the main hall all the time. (Look how many of the top WCS routines are - shock - to very MJ'able tracks in the 120+ bpm range).

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    Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    I think Andy's question could be rephrased as something like "Why isn't there much Modern Jive at MJ weekenders?"

    And it's a good question - MJ will never progress if everyone including the organisers think of it as a second-class dance.

    Salsa weekenders teach salsa - OK, they may have a mixed one like Latin Explosion, but at least they're upfront about it.

    AT weekenders teach AT - yes, they teach different flavours, but they don't suddenly teach, I dunno, salsa or something.

    Whereas MJ weekenders sometimes seem to teach everything but MJ.
    That's exactly my point. It's not that I've got anything against WCS, it's just that it's a Modern Jive weekender and we seem to get a lot of non-MJ at most Modern Jive weekenders. At the moment the flavour is WCS, ten years ago it was Lindy Hop.

    The bit that gets me is that there are so many people at MJ weekenders who need more MJ lessons - some of them desperately But they get all those other dances and come away from the weekender with their MJ bad habits further entrenched through repetition and a whole new set of habits from different dances. MJ danced well is a nice dance. And training in MJ will help people dance nice MJ. Doing beginners lessons in different dances will make you even more of a beginner.

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    Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post


    I think it would also be helpful if there wasn't such an attitude of "The main hall is for s**t dancers". It's not only cliquey, but these days I'd say it's also a huge waste of the largest dance area.
    I agree - and of course, the converse attitude of "The Blues Room is for Good Dancers" gets up my nose too. If only because every other review of a SP weekender seems to start "I spent all my time in the Blues Room {because I'm a Good Dancer}"

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    Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post


    I think it would also be helpful if there wasn't such an attitude of "The main hall is for s**t dancers". It's not only cliquey, but these days I'd say it's also a huge waste of the largest dance area. You don't have to play crap in the main hall all the time. (Look how many of the top WCS routines are - shock - to very MJ'able tracks in the 120+ bpm range).
    I don't have that feeling of the main hall being for the s**t dancers. I mainly think of the difference of being between the speed and feel of the music. Many people who are relatively new to MJ find the find the Swing and blues room intimidating not because the dancers are better but because they don't have any training in what is going on there. At first this fear causes them to walk away but after a while some venture in and try to explore what is going on.

    All I want is faster music in the main room and slower music in the second room. I am not a big fan of a constant diet of fast pop music to dance to because I feel it is no different to what I can get on any night of the week at almost any venue from any company. I therefore enjoy the less common opportunity to dance to slower music at weekenders.

    The main dance hall space is not wasted by there being a second room for slower music because there is very little difference between them in terms of the space per dancer available. The main room is big but there are more people there. The second room is smaller but there are fewer people there. Certainly at Southport all rooms seem to be equally packed or equally quiet at about the same times. The dancer density seems generally about the same in the different rooms.

    What I love having is the Choice of what speed and style of music I dance to at any given time. I love dancing to blues, slow swing, latin, and WCS music but from time to time I want to go to the main room and have a blast to something more upbeat. The thing is I want to be able to choose what I do when rather than having the DJ choose for me. Of course, this is only possible in multi roomed venues like weekenders.

    It is for this reason that I cannot see the point of playing large amounts of latin music in the Swing and blues room when there is a latin room 50 yards away.

    Where there are multiple rooms then IMHO each room should have its own identity in terms of the music and stick to it. The punter should make the choice not the DJ.

    My feeling is not that there is too much WCS, tango, or anything else at MJ weekenders. There is just not enough MJ at MJ weekenders.

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    Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    I agree - and of course, the converse attitude of "The Blues Room is for Good Dancers" gets up my nose too. If only because every other review of a SP weekender seems to start "I spent all my time in the Blues Room {because I'm a Good Dancer}"
    Or perhaps because they liked it?

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    Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    I think it would also be helpful if there wasn't such an attitude of "The main hall is for s**t dancers".
    Maybe its only on the Forum where this attitude pervades ... and luckily this Forum is far form representative of the general dancing public. My recollection of the main room at the last S'port I went to was that there was some excellent music and some very good dancers there. Only thing missing from S'Port is good MJ classes. Thats where the Ceroc weekenders have the edge ... at the moment. Wonder if this will change next year.

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    Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post


    I think it would also be helpful if there wasn't such an attitude of "The main hall is for s**t dancers". It's not only cliquey, but these days I'd say it's also a huge waste of the largest dance area. You don't have to play crap in the main hall all the time. (Look how many of the top WCS routines are - shock - to very MJ'able tracks in the 120+ bpm range).
    That's quite funny. I often come across; "The Blues room is for s**t fast dancers"

    Guess we all live and die by our prejudices

    Agree with the music thing tho. I've nothing against ubiquitous thump-thump music. It has it's own dance skill requirements like all music, but it is overdone and overplayed in the main rooms IMO. Mostly I'd like more variation.

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    Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

    Quote Originally Posted by hinksfield View Post
    Hi Caro, dont give up, cant get enough WCS i think alot of people are looking to wcs as a little more challenging than MJ just on the basis that there is footwork to go along with all the upper body movements,for me i totally adore it it is sexy,slinky and creates a much stronger dancing partnership than anything i have tried for a long while....anyone who has not tried it you dont know what you are missing ..
    I have tried it. I have watched it. I have been taught it by some of the best. I say that the only person stopping you having a "strong dance partnership" in MJ is yourself. Same with adding in some slink or sexy into the dance - nothing done here that can't be done in MJ... and without all this tripple stepping nonsense: move to the music, not some.

    Caro if your dancing in Aberdeen thurs i would love to partner you for some wcs ..
    As Caro said; Come out to play on Tuesday and I'll show you what can be done with MJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    What I love having is the Choice of what speed and style of music I dance to at any given time. I love dancing to blues, slow swing, latin, and WCS music but from time to time I want to go to the main room and have a blast to something more upbeat. The thing is I want to be able to choose what I do when rather than having the DJ choose for me. Of course, this is only possible in multi roomed venues like weekenders.


    I like to dance to Candy Man and I like to dance to Timberland and I like to dance to every tempo inbetween.

    I think that if your "guest teachers" are from a specific flavour of dance, then the whole weekender will be bias towards that flavour. It should be. What's the point on having a "guest teacher" and then not catering for the type of pupil they will pull in and not playing music that their classes are designed for?
    (In saying that, I think you will find quite a large proportion of classes in the Scottish weekenders are technique/style based rather than the 'moves' based ones I hear are common elsewhere )

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    Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

    I like to dance to Timberland
    strutting your stuff into a boutique selling an overpriced clothing range - explains a lot of what is wrong with MJ
    (It's Timbaland & I'm sorry for being rude but it was an open goal)

    I agree with Andy's question - If it's a MJ weekender then the majority of the dance taught should be MJ in origin, OK give it a slant if you must - Tango into MJ (mmmm i think someone has done that though) tricks for dancing to fast music, slinkying up your MJ etc etc. It strikes me as easy to book a good Lindy / WCS / Ballroom couple to teach their normal stuff rather than tailoring to the audience you have a natural following from.

    BTW I think Lovestoned is my fave MJable track released in the last year

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    Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Maybe its only on the Forum where this attitude pervades.
    Eh, I've heard non-forumites say similar things.

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    Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

    Quote Originally Posted by clevedonboy View Post
    BTW I think Lovestoned is my fave MJable track released in the last year
    Great track, for sure, assuming you kill it after 5 mins or so before the noodly bits but in my experience very difficult to dance well to, whether in MJ or WCS.

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    Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Great track, for sure, assuming you kill it after 5 mins or so before the noodly bits but in my experience very difficult to dance well to, whether in MJ or WCS.
    Agreed re the time - I have trimmed the version on my lappy to just under 5 mins, if I'm working from the CD it's got a very convenient point to fade around that time too. Of course if I'm dancing i'm subject to the choice of the DJ (the last time I heard it the DJ used the AWFUL "official" radio edit that just suddenly jumps into the "noodly bits")

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    Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

    Quote Originally Posted by clevedonboy View Post
    Agreed re the time - I have trimmed the version on my lappy to just under 5 mins, if I'm working from the CD it's got a very convenient point to fade around that time too. Of course if I'm dancing i'm subject to the choice of the DJ (the last time I heard it the DJ used the AWFUL "official" radio edit that just suddenly jumps into the "noodly bits")
    Great track, Im lucky to have the official promo cd with versions, so have choice

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    Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

    I agree with both sides of the arguments. Yes there is probably too little MJ at MJ weekends but As there are no regular classes up in Aberdeen the closest being over 100 miles away my only opportunity to learn and practice WCS is at Weekenders and when I'm away visiting places that have WCS classes.

    I think a balance needs to be found as I would hate to not be able to do WCS at weekenders and as has been pointed out I'm unsure whether a pure WCS weekender would be finacially viable yet! But I think at some weekends the amount of WCS does appear to overshadow the MJ! (Not that I'm complaining personally.................................Eeeek I'm turning into Caro!)

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    Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    (Not that I'm complaining personally.................................Eeeek I'm turning into Caro!)
    You'll know you've become Caro when you start arguing with me to get my attention

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