Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

[Andy McGregor]

I've just come back from Camber and was peeved to find that, although three rooms were available for freestyle it was often the case that two of them were playing WCS music at the same time. This meant that anybody wanting to dance in the normal beat range for MJ had to dance to the bouncy pop being played in the main room.

The room that was usually the Swing & Blues room had become the Swing, Blues and WCS room: that was in addition to the dedicated WCS room.

And, the headline stars at Jive Addiction weekenders are not Modern Jivers, being from the worlds of WCS (again) and ballroom.

It's nice to try out other dances at weekenders. However, it should be possible to identify it as a MJ weekender by studying the teacher line-up and freestyle options on offer. If you looked at the timetable for many of the recent MJ weekenders you might think it was a WCS weekender where people could try out many other dances, including Modern Jive

I know WCS is becoming popular. And I know that most of the people who are taking up WCS are being drawn from the world of MJ. But that doesn't mean that we should be giving up on Modern Jive - it means that the world of WCS should be supporting MJ as a source of future dancers. And support doesn't include playing slow, WCS music to an audience of MJ dancers who'd like swing & blues music - especially when there's a perfectly good WCS room next door

[Caro]

I've just come back from Camber and was peeved to find that, although three rooms were available for freestyle it was often the case that two of them were playing WCS music at the same time.
(...)

The room that was usually the Swing & Blues room had become the Swing, Blues and WCS room: that was in addition to the dedicated WCS room.

What exactly do you call WCS music ?
Most of any 'regular' swing/blues set would be perfectly suitable for wcs, so no wonder you'll find wcs dancers there... not sure what you're getting at ?

Second point, look at the charts... the popular music right now seems to be slower than what it used to be some years ago. RnB definately is a big part of it, and it just happens that very often this makes great wcs. So (versatile) dancers will dance whatever form they find is the most suitable to the music played...

And, the headline stars at Jive Addiction weekenders are not Modern Jivers, being from the worlds of WCS (again) and ballroom.

Well, can you suggest any MJ names that would be as popular and inspiring for the crowds as, say, Jordan and Tat or Benji and Heidi ? Or Vincent and Flavia for the ballroom side of things ?

May be if you were to become a national MJ 'star' with incredibly inspiring routines and /or a presence on national TV, they'll invite you as the headline....

Not sure what is the point of your rant TBH, why the distinction with MJ / WCS and not MJ / blues ? Or MJ / chacha for that matter, I've seen plenty of people doing chacha in latin room at MJ weekenders, since I cant do it I think that's a disgrace !

What I say is that you should learn WCS so that you too have the option to adapt your dancing to the style of music being played, that would only increase your dancing satisfaction IMO...

[Andy McGregor]

What exactly do you call WCS music ?
Most of any 'regular' swing/blues set would be perfectly suitable for wcs, so no wonder you'll find wcs dancers there... not sure what you're getting at ?

Second point, look at the charts... the popular music right now seems to be slower than what it used to be some years ago. RnB definately is a big part of it, and it just happens that very often this makes great wcs. So (versatile) dancers will dance whatever form they find is the most suitable to the music played...

It looks to me as if Caro has answered her own question - and her answer is the same one as I would give. I know that WCS music isn't all slow. The point is that some of the music being played last weekend was at the slow end of the WCS range - and that is, IMHO, too slow for MJ. The point about finding the WCS dancers in the swing/blues room would be valid - if people were doing WCS to it - however, all I saw in the Swing/Blues/WCS room was slo-mo-MJ. And that was because all the WCS dancers were in the WCS room

Well, can you suggest any MJ names that would be as popular and inspiring for the crowds as, say, Jordan and Tat or Benji and Heidi ? Or Vincent and Flavia for the ballroom side of things ?

Those dancers are inspiring We need, however, to consider what they inspire people to do. IMHO they inspire people to take up the dance they are doing. That dance is not MJ. There are inspirational MJ dancers. They win competitions. Those competition winners teach at weekenders - but they have no celebrity outside the small world of MJ. If people want to meet national celebrities that is a different argument from improving your MJ dancing.

Not sure what is the point of your rant TBH, why the distinction with MJ / WCS and not MJ / blues ? Or MJ / chacha for that matter, I've seen plenty of people doing chacha in latin room at MJ weekenders, since I cant do it I think that's a disgrace !

The difference is that people can do the Cha Cha Cha to music that's also suitable for MJ. That means everybody can enjoy the dance. Some of the music that's played for a WCS dancer is too slow for MJ. I have no problem with people doing WCS to music that's appropriate for MJ. But I do object to a MJ weekender that has two of it's three rooms playing music that's too slow for MJ.

What I say is that you should learn WCS so that you too have the option to adapt your dancing to the style of music being played, that would only increase your dancing satisfaction IMO...

I keep learning WCS. I've done quite a few workshops, including the ones at Southport in Feb. One day, when I've got more evenings free, I will start travelling to London to get decent lessons and learn WCS properly. In the meantime I'd like to go to MJ weekenders that offer WCS as an option but don't have WCS as the main feature of the weekend. After all, it's a MJ weekender

[David Bailey]

And, the headline stars at Jive Addiction weekenders are not Modern Jivers, being from the worlds of WCS (again) and ballroom.

Yes, I noticed that - Vincent and Flavia aren't headlining SP in Feb, it's yet another WCS couple.

[MartinHarper]

There's too much slow music at Modern Jive weekenders.

There's really no reason to bring West Coast into that discussion.

[Caro]

There's too much slow music at Modern Jive weekenders.

There's really no reason to bring West Coast into that discussion.

Pretty much exactly what I was going to say... In the end Andy, isn't your problem that you find there is too much slow music played at MJ weekenders ?

Btw what exactly do you call 'slow', or 'the slow end of WCS music range' ? Just so I can figure out if you're talking 120 bpm, 100 or 80... (if I was asked that question I'd say 80 btw, but hey I like slow ).

[Lory]

And, the headline stars at Jive Addiction weekenders are not Modern Jivers, being from the worlds of WCS (again) and ballroom.

Who did the showcases at Camber?

I'm probably going to say the wrong this here but pure Modern jive just doesn't seem to have the Wow factor for cabarets, that some of the other dance styles have.. i.e. WCS, Tango, Ballroom & Latin and Lindy

Andy, if you could choose any couple to showcase pure MJ, who would you choose?

And secondly, are there any celebrity status dancers who do Modern Jive?

[Andy McGregor]

Pretty much exactly what I was going to say... In the end Andy, isn't your problem that you find there is too much slow music played at MJ weekenders ?

I think there is a place for slower, smoother music at jive weekenders. But a long run of slower tracks seems to deaden the mood. I run a "Smooth Sunday" every week and play smooth music. Some of the music is slower, and some of it is quite fast, but it's not the boom-boom-boom of modern pop.

Btw what exactly do you call 'slow', or 'the slow end of WCS music range' ? Just so I can figure out if you're talking 120 bpm, 100 or 80... (if I was asked that question I'd say 80 btw, but hey I like slow ).

I would say the slowest you'd expect to hear in a MJ blues room is about 105bpm. And you wouldn't want that speed for too many tracks in a row. I'm not sure what the slowest music is for WCS.

[Bluey]

Who did the showcases at Camber?

Joseph & Sadie
then
Darrien & Hollie 2006 Strictly Dance Fever 2006 champs

then all four together

[Caro]

I would say the slowest you'd expect to hear in a MJ blues room is about 105bpm.

And I would say that's a shame...
So many great tracks in the 90+ bpm range...

[Bluey]

I've just come back from Camber and was peeved to find that, although three rooms were available for freestyle it was often the case that two of them were playing WCS music at the same time. This meant that anybody wanting to dance in the normal beat range for MJ had to dance to the bouncy pop being played in the main room.

The room that was usually the Swing & Blues room had become the Swing, Blues and WCS room: that was in addition to the dedicated WCS room.

And, the headline stars at Jive Addiction weekenders are not Modern Jivers, being from the worlds of WCS (again) and ballroom.

It's nice to try out other dances at weekenders. However, it should be possible to identify it as a MJ weekender by studying the teacher line-up and freestyle options on offer. If you looked at the timetable for many of the recent MJ weekenders you might think it was a WCS weekender where people could try out many other dances, including Modern Jive

I know WCS is becoming popular. And I know that most of the people who are taking up WCS are being drawn from the world of MJ. But that doesn't mean that we should be giving up on Modern Jive - it means that the world of WCS should be supporting MJ as a source of future dancers. And support doesn't include playing slow, WCS music to an audience of MJ dancers who'd like swing & blues music - especially when there's a perfectly good WCS room next door

Andy do you you know who worked flat out with private lessons all this weekend i addition to 3 classes.
Graham Fox & Chelsea
the classes were WEST COAST SWING

Good bluesy WCS is excellent in the Blues room because I saw people doing both, some a mixture. Of course people like Justin Timberlake wcs belongs in dedicated WCS room.

[straycat]

Yes, I noticed that - Vincent and Flavia aren't headlining SP in Feb

Aren't they? I thought they were....

[Bluey]

Yes, I noticed that - Vincent and Flavia aren't headlining SP in Feb, it's yet another WCS couple.

on the Jive addiction today

EVENT
The temperature’s Rising...
dancersAnd it's getting HOTTER!

BENJI SCHWIMMER & HEIDI GROSKREUTZ... AND the Stars of BBC’s 'Strictly Come Dancing Show' VINCENT SIMONE & FLAVIA CACACE are heading our line-up. Scroll down to read more about these fabulous couples.

[straycat]

And I would say that's a shame...
So many great tracks in the 90+ bpm range...

Not to mention the 80+ range.
And the 70+ etc etc etc. I think the slowest I've played is about 48.

[Andy McGregor]

Andy do you you know who worked flat out with private lessons all this weekend i addition to 3 classes.
Graham Fox & Chelsea
the classes were WEST COAST SWING

Yes, I do know because we shared a chalet and spoke with him. He was so booked up he actually had to postpone one of his private lessons just so that he could get a shower before teaching his class.

As I said, I know that there are plenty of MJ dancers who would like to learn WCS. But there are more dancers who'd simply like to improve their MJ. And that improvement is likely to come from getting better and more MJ tuition and dancing to more interesting music. Not from learning a different dance or doing MJ to music that's too slow.

[Caro]

As I said, I know that there are plenty of MJ dancers who would like to learn WCS. But there are more dancers who'd simply like to improve their MJ. And that improvement is likely to come from getting better and more MJ tuition and dancing to more interesting music. Not from learning a different dance or doing MJ to music that's too slow.

No, Andy McGregor thinks there are plenty of MJ dancers etc...

Now, were there many people dancing in the rooms when what you consider 'music too slow for MJ' ? I wasn't there but unless DJs have been asked specifically to play a certain speed of music by the organisers, they'll 'read the room' and play what people want to dance to. It just seems to me that your taste is different from most people at this event ?

[Andy McGregor]

Who did the showcases at Camber?

I'm probably going to say the wrong this here but pure Modern jive just doesn't seem to have the Wow factor for cabarets, that some of the other dance styles have.. i.e. WCS, Tango, Ballroom & Latin and Lindy

Andy, if you could choose any couple to showcase pure MJ, who would you choose?

And secondly, are there any celebrity status dancers who do Modern Jive?

The Cabarets at Camber were Joseph and Sadie and Darrien & Hollie. Both couples did separate routines and then they got together to do a foursome. Brilliant dancing with loads of attitude.

I think Lory is right about the WOW factor for MJ cabarets. But that's more down to the content than anything else. I've seen some brilliant showcases in competitions - the ones that tell are story are my favourites.

If I had to choose a couple to showcase MJ I think it would be Viktor for the lead - he moves so well he can walk with more style than most people can dance. When it comes to a partner for him I think he'd be spoilt for choice. There's loads of great female dancers who could partner Viktor at MJ: Lily & Nina off the top of my head, but there's loads of other great ladies out there - how about Lory?

I think there are loads of celebrities who could do MJ. It wouldn't take a dance professional long to pick it up.

IMHO the reason MJ is, on average, not very good to look at, is also the reason for its success. Anybody can do MJ. You can learn it in 45 minutes and will be able to do 20 moves after 6 lessons. That doesn't mean you look good, but you feel great

[Andy McGregor]

No, Andy McGregor thinks there are plenty of MJ dancers etc...

Now, were there many people dancing in the rooms when what you consider 'music too slow for MJ' ? I wasn't there but unless DJs have been asked specifically to play a certain speed of music by the organisers, they'll 'read the room' and play what people want to dance to. It just seems to me that your taste is different from most people at this event ?

I know there are plenty of dancers who'd like to do WCS because they are filling WCS classes. And, who was it who said "Unless you managed to find some way to infiltrate my brains" you will not know what I think? (the bit outside the quotation marks is there to make sense of the first bit). This was in a love note from Caro

And, on the subject of the Swing, Blues and WCS room, I was there, I'm not guessing. At 11.45pm on Sunday, normally the busiest night for the Swing & Blues room there were 4 couples - the DJ was briefed and stuck to the brief.

[ducasi]

I have no problem with lots of WCS music being played at MJ events, as I love to dance MJ to this kind of music.

It's rarely too slow – I can't help thinking of songs like "Sweat", which has a tempo in the 70's I think, which is quite common in blues room across the UK.

Its beat is regular enough if you want to stick with marching footwork, and those who like to follow the music can mix things up a little too.

What annoys me is fast swing music played in a room which is better suited to being a "chill zone". That was one thing that annoyed me about the blues room in Camber last year. Sounds like it was a better this year.

I'd probably agree with you on one point Andy – I don't think there is a need for a separate WCS room when there is good WCS music being played in one of the main rooms. Maybe be better to use the small rooms for niche music like Tango, Latin or Fast Swing.

[frodo]

I know there are plenty of dancers who'd like to do WCS because they are filling WCS classes. ...

There may be plenty of people who want to do classes.

That doesn't mean there is plenty of people who want to freestyle it.

Re: Is there too much West Coast Swing at Modern Jive Weekenders?

Well as far as a second room / blues room / chill out zone, usually either too much or not enough.

I think Camber has plenty of rooms ( I think the schedule for the 'Storm' Ceroc weekender showed 4 rooms in simultaneous use for classes ), especially late at night / early morning when experienced WCS dancers (effectively those more likely to freestyle) seem to prefer to dance.

If there are few WCS couples it is a waste of space, to play music targeting them, and if there are many they overwhelm the place and should be placed elsewhere.