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Thread: genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

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    Registered User cms's Avatar
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    genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

    i just booked my tickets for the christmas party in stirling and was told i could only book if i did so with a male due to gender balancing. for me that wasnt a problem but for many dancers out there who go with friends (and me not so long ago!) this will mean they are unable to go.

    now i understand the concept and need for gb at workshops and weekenders but surely for party nights its taking things too far. i was going to ask my sister to the night but now unless i find a male to book with her she cant come.

    can someone tell me if this is a mistake in the online booking system or new policy - and if it is new policy what do people think?

    C x

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by cms View Post
    now i understand the concept and need for gb at workshops and weekenders but surely for party nights its taking things too far.
    This is the way events are going - and not before time too.

    Gender-balanced events provide a better-quality dance experience for more attendees than non-balanced ones do. Therefore, they're more competitive than non-balanced events. Therefore, assuming it's not too much overhead, it makes sense to balance from a business point-of-view.

    Of course, this doesn't mean that women will be happier overally - the flipside is that the competition amongst women is for places, rather than for the men once at an event.

    But it means that it's more fun during the event. So balancing, to me, is a Good Thing. But then, I'm a man, so I can pretty much drive along to a weekender and pay on the door

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    Re: genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by cms View Post
    ...now i understand the concept and need for gb at workshops and weekenders but surely for party nights its taking things too far. ...
    Is it taking it too far for all party nights or just 'special' party nights ?

    At some places only 'special' party nights are gender balanced, possibly because the organiser is relatively more likely to sell out, and tickets are sold mainly in advance.

    Both of are likely to reduce the costs or risk involved to the organiser of gender balancing.
    Last edited by frodo; 10th-November-2007 at 01:19 AM.

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    Re: genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

    Given a choice, I'd rather attend a gender balanced event. It's really unpleasant when there are way too many women and those around you pretty much sharpen their elbows & the men get a haunted look - so even if you have the chance to dance with one, they're knackered & the haunted look returns at the end of the dance.

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    Commercial Operator Heather's Avatar
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    Re: genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

    Sorry but I don't think its a good idea for party nights as it will exclude a great number of lady Ceroc regulars at the weekly classes.
    I was planning to go to this, but if gender balancing is in operation it looks like I won't be able to unless I get my friend John to come with me.
    I've intoduced quite a few female friends to Ceroc over the past year and unless they get their ( non dancing) partners to tag along they won't be able to come either. Even if their partners did come it doesn't really alter the situation either as none of the guys dance!!!
    What's next I wonder - having to pass a dancing competency test before you can go to an event?
    I can see the logic behind gender balancing in a workshop situation but in the case of parties I don't think its a good idea.


    Heather

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    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

    I suspect, 'party night' might mean something slightly different in Scotland to down here in London

    Here it usually just means... a normal dance night, with maybe an added theme, possibly a cabaret and some nibbles thrown in too. But in reality, at the end of the day, the main reason people have come, is they want to dance.

    Personally, I'm 100% in favour of Gender Balancing for all events.

    I rather have a short term disappointment of not getting a place, with the knowledge that if I'd got a place due to 'non GB', my evening would have suffered anyway.

    I'd feel cheated and as though I'd wasted my time and money! As I've got other choices I could make when it comes to going out for an evening, not dancing!

    I don't mind an evening of purely socialising or spectating, in fact, I enjoy it very much - when that's what I've planned to do but when I go out to dance, that's what I want to do, without having to become a stalker or a grabber or to just feel grateful for each and every dance!
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    Re: genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

    I prefer GB events.

    I hate seeing loads of women sat out, I feel really sad about them not getting many dances.

    It is especially bad on really over subscribed events when there is an ungainly rugby scrum at the edge of the dance floor after each track.


    I understand there is a fine line between a GM booking system which may well exclude many single females and a totally inclusive booking system which CAN lead to a total imbalance and many single females not getting many dances most of the night.

    The GM type of event enforces the poor evening of "no dance" that is the actual consequence of many oversubscribed events.



    We really don't want to find regular class attendees excluded all the time from party nights.... but maybe the consquence of more GM style booking systems is improved events in the long run, as our excluded ladies will drag more men along to make sure they get entrance..... this may well enhance the male dancer stock for all events (which is not a bad thing IMHO!).



    .. another issue for me is this.... as dancing becomes more and more popular around the country I do not think organisers can continue morally and ethically taking money in entrance fees from loads of women for an evening of dance when there are not enough men to satisfy their dancing wishes... DISCUSS?

    As I said at the beginning I prefer GB events... but that doesn't stop me attending other events. Given a choice of events I will generally attend the one everyone else is going to... no seriously my preferences are
    1. how much freestyle time there is (the longer the better..).
    2. Who is DJing ?
    3. gender balanced or not !
    4.where is everyone else going .
    5. Distance from home address.

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heather View Post
    What's next I wonder - having to pass a dancing competency test before you can go to an event?
    And the downside of that would be...?

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    Re: genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

    I can see the benefits of gender-balancing, but it also seems to go hand-in-hand with events being ticket-only.

    Sometimes I will only decide to go to an event at the last minute, especially if it's a long drive away. Making an event ticket-only means I can't go at the last minute - so one less man...

    Has anyone succeeded in operating gender-balancing for a "pay on the door" event?
    Love dance, will travel

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    Re: genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

    IMO gender balancing means giving equal wait to all attendees. I think more women want to lead than men to follow, so we get more women paired in lead and follow. I also think that more women take part in double trouble, and that some do that from choice rather than from desperation. I have a sneaking suspicion that women like to chat more. I suspect more women than men book but don't turn up. (Anybody got facts on this?) All of those issues, to me, lead to booking a slight excess of ladies. to make the night fairest for all.

    I do not recall seeing an event where everybody sitting out was feminine. I think it may be a quality issue as well as quantity.

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    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    I think more women want to lead than men to follow, so we get more women paired in lead and follow. I also think that more women take part in double trouble,and that some do that from choice rather than from desperation.
    Not true in my case... I couldn't lead, if my life depended on it But I do dance with other ladies but its usually just to make the best out of a bad situation

    There are a few 'rare' exceptions i.e. Sparkles, Tiggerbabe and Tor.


    I have a sneaking suspicion that women like to chat more.
    Not in my case!! Give me the option and I'd choose to dance every time!

    I suspect more women than men book but don't turn up. (Anybody got facts on this?)
    Well. I know two men who bought tickets for UTOPIA but didn't make it in the end but I don't know of any women so, I'd argue that one too!
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    Re: genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Not true in my case... I couldn't lead, if my life depended on it But I do dance with other ladies but its usually just to make the best out of a bad situation

    There are a few 'rare' exceptions i.e. Sparkles, Tiggerbabe and Tor.
    I must admit that this weekend I led more than I followed.... so even tho Utopia is a gender balanced event, and I came as a "lady" obviously.. I found that I actually wanted to lead rather than follow for most of the weekend...

    PS Lory thanx for letting me lead you last night

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    Re: genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by cms View Post
    i just booked my tickets for the christmas party in stirling and was told i could only book if i did so with a male due to gender balancing. for me that wasnt a problem but for many dancers out there who go with friends (and me not so long ago!) this will mean they are unable to go.

    now i understand the concept and need for gb at workshops and weekenders but surely for party nights its taking things too far. i was going to ask my sister to the night but now unless i find a male to book with her she cant come.

    can someone tell me if this is a mistake in the online booking system or new policy - and if it is new policy what do people think?

    C x
    Gender balancing is becoming the norm for dance weekenders in Aussie, but not for dance parties.

    Either way, the ladies complain...

    1/ Not enough men

    or

    2/ Why could I not book in

    It has a positive, book in early (which helps the event organisers) or bring a man along (which helps the event organisers)

    If you cannot find a man, then maybe start a thread... Lady seeking random man who wants to go to x event, so we can book in together.

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    Re: genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caz View Post
    PS Lory thanx for letting me lead you last night
    Sorry! And Caz of course!
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    Re: genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

    Serious questions...

    What's everyone's perception of a Party night?

    What 'should' the differences be? (between a 'party night' and a 'freestyle')

    And - What are the 'real' differences?
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    Registered User Degodier's Avatar
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    Re: genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

    I agree with Lory, I'd go for gender balancing every time. It's the reason I don't go to the Jive Time weekenders, the one time I did I ended up fighting for a dance or stalking most of the evenings and I hate that.

    In the 'tango taster' class we tried they were 37 women over . Needless to say we left!

  17. #17
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    Re: genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

    I managed to book for the Stirling party today as a lone lady with no bother. Having read your post, I went and checked the cerocscotland main website, and while the New Year's party is certainly advertised as gender balanced, the Stirling party is not so advertised.

    I am wondering if it was just a glitch in the booking system which you hit cms.

    Any chance of Franck or someone clarifying on this issue?

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    Re: genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Sorry! And Caz of course!
    Not to worry Lory.. Sometimes we only get to dance together to save each other!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Serious questions...

    What's everyone's perception of a Party night?

    What 'should' the differences be? (between a 'party night' and a 'freestyle')

    And - What are the 'real' differences?
    Don't know the answer to this one but I do know that I have often called a freestyle a "party night" previously but this is to do with my line dance background when we would have "party nights" i.e. when it was a social night with no teaching AKA a freestyle in MJ!

    xx

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    Gender balancing is becoming the norm for dance weekenders in Aussie, but not for dance parties.

    Either way, the ladies complain...

    1/ Not enough men

    or

    2/ Why could I not book in
    Of course, that's only natural.

    Gender balancing doesn't solve the problem - it doesn't magically change the fact that more women dance than men. But, it means that the events themselves are more fun - it shifts the pain away from the event.

    Although, thinking about it, I wonder what would happen to the MJ dance culture if all events - including class nights - were gender-balanced?

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    Re: genderbalancing at party nights - right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post

    Gender balancing doesn't solve the problem - it doesn't magically change the fact that more women dance than men. But, it means that the events themselves are more fun - it shifts the pain away from the event.
    Which overall is a good thing... The only downside being that on the up and coming dance camp on the Sunshine Coast, they do not want me to teach Double Trouble, as it is Gender balanced, so half the guys would not be able to attend that one, or we would have a lot of guys over... but I have had a thought, at the same time as double trouble, why not teach a "Men's styling" workshop?
    There have been women styling workshops, has anyone heard of a men only, mens\'s styling workshop? Do you think it would work?


    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Although, thinking about it, I wonder what would happen to the MJ dance culture if all events - including class nights - were gender-balanced?
    I would not like to attempt to even try this...

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