A Musicality Question?

[Steven666]

For the musicality dancers out there, do you have to learn tracks bar by bar to know where the stops, pauses, flow of music are or can you do it easily to tracks you have, say, never heard before (ie reacting to the music rather than anticipating it)?

I tend to do the former which is why I probably slightly fail at it.

[MartinHarper]

For the musicality dancers out there, do you have to learn tracks bar by bar to know where the stops, pauses, flow of music are or can you do it easily to tracks you have, say, never heard before (ie reacting to the music rather than anticipating it)?

I don't learn tracks bar by bar. It does help if I've heard a track before. I still hit stuff on tracks I've not heard before, sometimes by reacting to it, sometimes by anticipating it. Oh, and I mess up plenty.

Musicality workshops are good. Music appreciation classes are also good.

[geoff332]

Music follows fairly distinct patterns and structures - and ceroc music is typically drawn from only a very small range of these. If nothing else, breaks and highlights almost always hit on the first beat of the bar. If you follow the standard phrase counting of 8 beats, you will find the highlights on 1 and 5 (and more often on the 1).

The next thing is the progressions in music - the sequence of chords that each bar tends to play within. Pop/rock music tends to follow fairly simple chord progressions, so when you hear one starting you have a pretty good idea of how long it will last and when/how it will end. Similarly, with crescendos: the music builds up to a highlight.

Another thing to listen for is phrases. Most pop songs have hooks: short sequences of notes that punctuate the song. Sometimes, these are create little pieces to link into your dancing.

12 bar blues is a good example. It follows a pattern repeating every 12 bars (funnily enough). The climax of each 12 bars hits around bars 10-12 (depending on the song, but within a song it's usually consistent). I can never remember the exact progression, but if you pick a song as 12 bar blues, and you count the beats and bars. When you hear a highlight, it's a safe bet that the highlight will repeat in 12 bars.

It all sounds pretty complicated - but in reality you don't need to keep track of the bars that closely: the music itself gives you all the cues you need.

I don't tend to count a lot whilst dancing: I can always hit the beat and find the 1 count. I usually find the highlights OK, but need to improve there. But if I'm sitting a song out, I normally count the beat to that song in my head. I often seem to end up doing the same, when listening to music in any other context.

[rubyred]

Hi Steven
This is only from my perspective and what I have always done, but presuming I have musicality that is, I tend to feel the music, can't explain it really but even when its something I haven't heard before, perhaps there is a familiarity in the way the music is phrased, I really don't know how it happens. Maybe the music bods out there may explain it better...calling CJ for example. One thing that I find I do without thinking really is when I listen to a song I can visualise how I would like to move and what kind of attitude I would put into it.

The best way for me I think is to listen and initially move anyway you feel you want to, whether with a partner or without one. You may feel self conscious so practise in the broom cupboard at first if it helps or in front of a mirror. Becoming familiar with the way say Latin music goes, there is a repeat of the movement in the music and eventually you can learn to recognise it in more popular stuff. Also say for example tango has a staccato beat at times, for the purists don't beat me up I am only using laypersons terms, but it is dramatic and passionate and would encourage me to do more dramatic movements.

If you listen to some of the Rat Pack songs the music lends itself to the dances of the time, the waltz, foxtrot, quick step etc. There is a story in all music and I think if you can learn to feel the rhythm then you will move the way the music wants you to. I think there are classes in musicality and style also that may be helpful.

Are you dancing at Brighouse on Friday?

[MartinHarper]

Example. Dancing to "Satisfaction".

The song starts. We've never heard it before, so we'll just mess around and be unmusical for a bit:
I can't get no
Then he pauses. So we pause. What will he say next? Dunno. Chances are good that it'll be similar to what we just heard, so we dance as if he's about to sing "I can't get no" again.
Sa-tis-fact-ion
Cool - we got a nice timing match between what we're dancing and what he's singing. What next? Dunno. We wait for him to start the next line:
I can't
That's familiar! Let's dance as if he's about to sing "get no satisfaction", and see what happens.
get no sa-tis-fact-ion
Bingo!

And so it goes on.

[johnnyman]

If you are au fait with the construction of music, you can begin to sense where things are going to change without even knowing the track in question.

Another thing you do notice is that tracks which seemed fast previously actually seem slower and you are able to hit the beats and breaks better.

best
johnnyman

[Steven666]

An idiots question.

What's a "break"?

(surrender to my musical knowledge)

[Chef]

An idiots question.

What's a "break"?

(surrender to my musical knowledge)

I am sure that Martin Harper will supply some links to previous threads on the subject of hitting the breaks (probably before I finish typing this).

The short answer is that breaks are point in the music where almost all the instruments stop playing (including the singer). I say almost all the instruments because on the tracks I am thinking about now there is often just the high hat on the drums playing.

So assuming you are going off to read the "hitting the breaks" thread I will just say here that I started off by counting through the music in order know where the breaks were going to start and end. Now I can feel the general rise in the music and the musical clues that a break is coming. I no longer have to count through the breaks (in my head of course - its only in WCS where I have to nearly count out loud) as I can now here the little musical clues (very often the high hat on the drums again) that let me know that we are about restart after the break.

The other thing to rememeber is that in the middle of songs there is usually an instrumental section and these are almost always devoid of breaks.

[Gadget]

A few threads...

Musicality: what is it to you?
Musicality for men
Blaze Phrasing theory workshop (Amir)
Should you dance to the style of the music?
Phrasing the music
What is Musicality - how did you achieve it?
Counting beats Vs Pattern recognition Vs Feeling the music?
Ceroc style Vs Technique Vs Moves (DavidB)
Musicality... and wcs... and taking it to MJ
Understanding Music
Too much musicality?
Let's talk about style
Musicality: when do you clap when you clap half beat?
Tips sought - dancing in time
Musicality: how do you learn?
The rights and wrongs of musicality

... There are a ton more, but these should keep you occupied for a while

[timbp]

It all sounds pretty complicated - but in reality you don't need to keep track of the bars that closely: the music itself gives you all the cues you need.

When I started dancing, I could not find the beat.
Somewhere along the way I learned to dance to the beat.
Then Nicky and Robert explained about the structure of most of the music we dance to, and how to use that structure to hit the breaks.

Since then I've had various musicality workshops from CMJ teachers, from CA teachers, and from visitors such as Jordan and Tatiana, Myles and Tessa, and Robert and Deborah.
I've learned something from every class, but the biggest boost has just been being forced to listen to the music.
My dancing is always complimented on in the week after these workshops, then I fall back to my usual dancing (although I hope I do manage to improve).

The main point of the classes is they teach you how to listen to the music.

And listening to music is the key.

Do workshops, as they will show you what you need to listen to, and give you some ideas of how to fit moves to the music.

[geoff332]

And listening to music is the key.

Absolutely. Whenever I have music on and am not doing anything else, I'll get into the music and try and find the beat. Then I try and spot the breaks and pick the structure of the music. Most music played at ceroc is pretty simple - an obvious beat and structure. The stuff I listen to is more diverse and more challenging. This is basically a form of dance practice.

When I dance, I am more and more able to find the music (not as well as I'd like, but better than I used to do it!)

For me, musicality is far more important than steps for dancing. As I've posted elsewhere, a dancer only needs a few steps if they can dance to music (and bring their partner with them). I don't know a single great dancer who isn't good at musicality.