What to do with that arm.....

[Auntie Temptme]

I've got no idea what to do with "that arm"!

And thinking about it I really really have no idea what I do do with it!

Last night was so crowed that it was kept fair much at my side
1) So I didn't wack anyone.
2) To try and protect myself from flying arms as well as flying hair.

No idea what I do, but know that didn't feel right!

[Gadget]

No matter where horizontally it is, try and keep it about hip height - much easier for the lead.

And only "style" it when that shoulder is away from your partner, otherwise you are taking it out of their grasp... which may be the desired intent

[Andy McGregor]

No matter where horizontally it is, try and keep it about hip height - much easier for the lead.

And only "style" it when that shoulder is away from your partner, otherwise you are taking it out of their grasp... which may be the desired intent

This is one of the few posts from Gadget that makes sense - and the only one that is less than 1,000 words. Have some rep

[spindr]

Well, according to last night's class -- when the lady takes the arm vertically up, the palm should end up facing outwards -- plus extend through the fingers -- otherwise it just looks like you are asking to be "excused" (or have "periscope" hands).

You should *never*, *never*, *never* let the elbow drift away from your body when lifting your hand -- you are likely to whack your partner in the face. This issue can be avoided by styling hands and arms only when you are facing your partner (can see that *neither* of you is travelling).

If you are taking your hand away from your body, then you need to watch it -- to check that there is space for you to style into -- and that you are not karate chopping passing dancers.

Checkout this clip for a few ideas

yes, I've posted it before

SpinDr

[MartinHarper]

Last night was so crowded that it was kept fair much at my side
1) So I didn't wack anyone.
2) To try and protect myself from flying arms as well as flying hair.

No idea what I do, but know that didn't feel right!

If it's really crowded, I'd suggest keeping your spare hand just in front of your belly button (or maybe slightly to the side). It should still be available to your leader there, because in crowded conditions it's best to stay close to each other to minimise space. I find that feels ok, because in crowded conditions both dancers hands, whether spare or engaged, are staying close and around the same general area.

[Andy McGregor]

If it's really crowded, I'd suggest

.. finding somewhere else to dance where the organiser isn't quite so greedy

[robd]

Checkout this clip for a few ideas

SpinDr

Nice clip

Salsa, done well ,looks fantastic though I guess you might say the same about most dance styles.

[Twirly]

Yes it will get in the way if the arm is permanently stuck out in front of you. I have seen one or two people doing this and it did rather look like a Dalek spinning out of control. That is why they need to be tucked away neatly when you are spinning but need to become available as you are slowing down to end your spin.

*snip*

The big thing is to move your hand(s) from their tidy or expressive spinning position to your reconnection position AS you are completing your final turn. If you turn and stop and only then offer your hand your lead has no chance to absorb any remaining spin and establish connection in the process. If you come to a complete stop, reconnect and start moving again your dance would proably lose a flowing nature and could have the feeling of stuttering along.

As always this is all just IMHO

Sure – with the right hand I do. That one is most definitely in the process of being extended out in front when I come out of the spin (though will analyse tomorrow night where it is during the spin as I can’t think right now). I guess that what I was talking about earlier is what I do with my left hand when it’s not required by the lead and I’m not attempting some sort of styling with it.

I did try and look at this whilst spinning on Saturday, though analysis was somewhat hampered by trying to maintain my balance whilst dancing with leads I’m unfamiliar with! Also was thinking about it might have affected the way that I move anyway.

Basically, came to the conclusion that whilst I spin, the left hand is tucked neatly in front of me, around waist height, but a couple of inches in front. As I come out of the spin, this seems to move in what is supposed to be an elegant sweeping motion out in front, then to the left side, and slightly down (my hand creates an arc). My palm faces my stomach as I’m spinning, but I rotate the lower arm and hand as I create the arc so that it starts to face down towards the floor (but I don’t drop the hand, it stays level with my arm), so it’s easier for the lead to take hold of.

If the lead doesn’t take it, then it can continue into some sort of styling move, out to the side possibly, depending on what happens next in the dance. Every lead I danced with seemed to be able to reach that hand when required (there was no fumbling), even the guy who danced with his eyes closed, and I would therefore assume that what I’m doing works for the leads. The advantage for me is that the arm acts as a counterweight/balance aid as the spin comes to it’s conclusion too, and therefore aids my control of the spin.

[timbp]

it looks like I'm telling the cat not to get on my lap.

Surely that's a good thing while you're dancing?

[timbp]

I think the best advice I ever got about "that arm" was hold it somewhere.

"Somewhere" doesn't necesarily have to be a specific point; hold your arm wherever suits you, as long as you are consciously (at least until you've learned to do it unconsciously) holding your arm there.

"Tension" is the important concept. If you let your arm dangle, it has no tension and looks like you didn't know you had that arm. If you consciouscly hold your arm by your side, it has tension and looks like you could do something/anything with that arm.

If you pay attention in classes, you will hear occasional comments about what to do with the spare arm.

In general, I say, remain aware of that arm,as you are aware of the other arm and both legs, conciously move it when it should be moved, and consciously keep it still when it should stay still. Never let any of your limbs move without your consent.

[Lory]

It suddenly dawned on me the other night, that I do something with my spare arm, that i'll probably get slated for


but.... when dancing with less experienced dancers (or those with little musical awareness) i've realised, I often determine the timing of moves (to fit the music) by purposely keeping it out of the leaders reach, until 'I'm' happy to receive the next move!

evil huh?

[Feelingpink]

... I often determine the timing of moves (to fit the music) by purposely keeping it out of the leaders reach, until 'I'm' happy to receive the next move!

evil huh?

Who said the leader is in control???

[Chef]

Basically, came to the conclusion that whilst I spin, the left hand is tucked neatly in front of me, around waist height, but a couple of inches in front. As I come out of the spin, this seems to move in what is supposed to be an elegant sweeping motion out in front, then to the left side, and slightly down (my hand creates an arc). My palm faces my stomach as I’m spinning, but I rotate the lower arm and hand as I create the arc so that it starts to face down towards the floor (but I don’t drop the hand, it stays level with my arm), so it’s easier for the lead to take hold of.

If the lead doesn’t take it, then it can continue into some sort of styling move, out to the side possibly, depending on what happens next in the dance. Every lead I danced with seemed to be able to reach that hand when required (there was no fumbling), even the guy who danced with his eyes closed, and I would therefore assume that what I’m doing works for the leads. The advantage for me is that the arm acts as a counterweight/balance aid as the spin comes to it’s conclusion too, and therefore aids my control of the spin.

This sounds to me like you are doing everything absolutely wonderfully.

a) the hands are neatly tucked away when spinning.
b) They become available at waist height as you are stopping spinning. Absolutely perfect for the leader to collect should they want them
c) if the leader doesn't collect that particulat hand then it is free to seamlessly move for the purposes of styling.

As a leader I couldn't ask for more.

You have noticed that once you start having to think about what you are doing then some other part of your dancing, that was previously fine, takes a downturn. If a partner can make the other persons job simple then it allows them to concentrate on other, hopefully more interesting aspects of the dance.

I was a little worried about what you said about finding it difficult to maintain your balance with leads that you were unfamiliar with. When going into a spin the follower must ARRIVE on balance in order to be able complete the spin and exit while still perfectly on balance. This balance of the follower is extremely delicate and is easly upset by the way a leader leads followers into spins. Followers can often over estimate the amount of energy they need to spin and put way too much into their free spins and end up knocking themselves off balance.

I think back to the time about 5 years ago when Amir used to teach a weekly class in Bromley and he insisted that each class started with warm up exercises and teaching both leaders and followers to free spin equally in each direction. Followers learnt that very little energy was needed for spins and leaders learnt how delicate the balance was. Good training. I am glad I had it even if I didn't appreciate it at the time as I just wanted to get through it and onto learning more moves.

[Lory]

Followers learnt that very little energy was needed for spins and leaders learnt how delicate the balance was.

For me, a lot depends on the speed of the floor and the height of the hand that the leader spins me with.

If, its a fast floor and the leader's prepped me (set me up at the right angle) and his hand just at the right height (belly button)when he spins me, then, as you say, I need hardly any inertia at all

[Chef]

For me, a lot depends on the speed of the floor and the height of the hand that the leader spins me with.

If, its a fast floor and the leader's prepped me (set me up at the right angle) and his hand just at the right height (belly button)when he spins me, then, as you say, I need hardly any inertia at all

A leader should be able to easily work out from how they move on the floor themselves and how the follower moves just how fast a particular floor is. On the whole I would start out erring on the side of adding too little energy to the followers spin rather than too much. If I end up adding too little then the follower goes round too slowly or doesn't get all the way around - big deal - at least she would remain on balance. I can always add some more energy to the next spin I lead. If I use too much energy and end up knocking my partner off balance I lose the trust of my follower and I am unlikely to get that back in the space of a 3 minute song.

If I knock my partner off balance then she has to think about getting back on balance and all thoughts of arm styling or musicality just pop out of her head.

On the occasions when I have danced as a follow in a regular class I find that men (although never women) try to "launch" me into spins. Possibly this is due to me being quite big and they think that I am going to need one huge amount of moving. A couple of times I have had guys use BOTH hands so that they can put their whole body weight into spinning me around. That used to make my eyes rattle a bit until I learnt that if it happened again I could let my arm go soft after I had gained enough energy for my spin - this would essentially disconnect me from the power source of my leader. I sometimes show people how little energy is needed for spins by putting both hands in my pockets and completing a spin using just the rotation of my body as I step towards my balance point. Fast moving big arm movements are very unhelpful for spinning if the are so uncontrolled that they pull you off balance before your spins are complete.

[Trish]

Blimey, this is all very technical! Personally I got what I know about spare arms from watching other people, watching the pro girls in Strictly Come Dancing and mucking about in front of a mirror at home (vain or what? )

[Chef]

Blimey, this is all very technical! Personally I got what I know about spare arms from watching other people, watching the pro girls in Strictly Come Dancing and mucking about in front of a mirror at home (vain or what? )

And you think this isn't being technical? You know, actually thinking about it and practicing?

[Trish]

And you think this isn't being technical? You know, actually thinking about it and practicing?

It was all excellent technical stuff I just tend to be someone who prefers to try things out than thing too much !

[Chef]

It was all excellent technical stuff I just tend to be someone who prefers to try things out than think too much !

I would love to be able to just show someone something rather than having to write loads of stuff to try and explain myself. When you are trying then you are thinking. Have fun.

[Jamie]

{snip}
The big thing is to move your hand(s) from their tidy or expressive spinning position to your reconnection position AS you are completing your final turn. If you turn and stop and only then offer your hand your lead has no chance to absorb any remaining spin and establish connection in the process. If you come to a complete stop, reconnect and start moving again your dance would proably lose a flowing nature and could have the feeling of stuttering along.

As always this is all just IMHO

I'm curious, whenever I spin I come to a complete stop before offering my hand to the lead, I've never had anyone complain about a loss of connection or that my dancing loses a flowing nature... I find that it's easier to keep myself on balance if I stop myself because if I didn't stop myself, I'd keep going, so my leader will either get bored and walk off or I'd eventually fall over... I find that follows who continue to spin until stopped by the leader (by the follow offering their hand whilst slowing down) are harder to control because they themselves seem so out of control..