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Thread: Teaching - pet hates

  1. #41
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    Re: Teaching - pet loves

    What Don't I like...

    Humiliation of someone in the class.

    Being taught to push and pull with force rather than lead/follow

    Being taught visual signals rather than lead/follow

    Sour faced/uninterested demos

    Absence of safety speil when teaching dips

    Vanishing teachers.

    Too much talking and not enough dancing/practice.

    Too many moves (or 'one' move that lasts twenty seven counts)

    Disco lights blinding me


    Niggling things...

    Too much chatting in a class

    Being shouted at (volume rather than anything else), especially in smaller classes.

    Classes running into freestyle time

    Executes elegant spin, then complains about not being able to spin very well today/on this surface.


    As to what I like, here's a whole lot of stuff I posted earlier:mark of a good teacher

  2. #42
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    Re: Start on time, finish on time. How much to teach?.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    I believe that Ceroc have made a costly mistake in teaching 4 moves in the intermediate. It is too big a step up for a beginner, and we lose people unecessarily. 4 intermediate moves are too much for many dancers too, and we lose skills because of that. I believe it encourages class over run, and we lose beginners and visitors because of it.
    I think it depends on what you count as a "Move" - remember that one move will be a 'classic intermediate' move, one will be a variation on one of the beginner moves taught, one will be similar to a move taught last week and that leaves one move to tie them all together.

    So in theory, only that last move should really involve "extra" teaching time.

  3. #43
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    Re: Teaching - pet hates

    Some of my preferences come from the classes in NZ. They have a couple of things that I find extremely useful. Not all could be transferred here, but some are worth thinking about.
    1. All classes last an hour. They start with a warm-up, which basically helps loosen you up and includes invaluable spinning practice (and means most people who've been dancing for more than six months can do an unassisted double spin).
    2. You have to do a workshop and be assessed to progress to the next level of classes. I appreciate that this demotivates some people, but it also lifts the standard of the classes a long way. The more experienced dancers find the quality more motivating and it opens the door to properly teach far more challenging moves.
    3. You do a lot of dancing. In a typical hour long intermediate class, you have 5 minutes warm-up; 10-15 minutes of demonstration/explanation; 10-15 minutes of dancing without music (walk through and count through); 10-15 minutes dancing through to music with the teacher calling the moves; a couple of minutes spent moving people around and managing the class; the rest of the time you are left to practice at your own speed, in class with music. You spend at least half of most classes actually dancing to music.
    4. For difficult or dangerous moves, the teacher will spend more time on technique and safety - especially with dips, drops and laybacks. The teacher and demonstrator may wander through the class and give people 1 on 1 teaching whilst the class is dancing to a song (it takes some real skill to manage the class while this is happening).
    5. After the class has danced a move to music, the teacher (and demonstrator) may give a few tips on what people could do better (often correcting footwork, handholds or weight distribution), then go on to the next move.
    6. Periodically, teachers would do a 5-10 minute exercise in the class on some aspect of technique: eg tension, balance, lunges, floor-craft, musicality, bodyrolls, pivots. The routine always supported whatever the exercise focused on. Each month, all the teachers would try and focus on one dimension of dancing in their classes.
    7. The moves are listed on a board for the class - so you always know what moves you're doing. This also helps if you want to take notes (or, for the lazy among us, a photo). It makes remembering moves much easier.
    As I said at the start, I know not everything I've mentioned is necessarily better than how classes are taught here. Similarly, not everything is transferable to the culture of Ceroc UK. But it might suggest a few variations and ideas that could be applied.

  4. #44
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    Re: Teaching - pet loves

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    You are right, if I'd promised to finish at 9.30pm.
    You do just that on your web site, under the classes information it is stated 9-9.30 for the intermediate class and freestyle starting at 9.30 (tuesdays, wednesdays and thursdays).

    Therefore, for people travelling to your class for the first time, some of them would have read the website and thus expect the lesson timings to be that as stated on the site.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    On most of my printed literature I say that the lesson starts at 9pm and lasts about half an hour with freestyle starting straight afterwards - on re-reading this is a bit vague. The mistake I think I'm making is saying that the price is £4 after 9.30pm. The next time I update things I will make suitable amendments. It will say something like. "Intermdiate lesson starts promptly at 9pm and will usually finish at 9.30pm and will never run later than 9.40pm".
    Fair enough
    Maybe something like, "intermediate lessons typically finish at 9.30, on some occations this class may be extended to 9.40 dependant upon the moves taught in the class".
    or
    "class finish times are as a guide only, on occations, lessons may be extended by no more than 10 minutes, dependant on class content"

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    At a dance class I think the big print part of my "contract" is to teach people to dance. If, one week, the routine is a bit more complex and needs a 40 minute intermediate lesson I believe that is what should happen. Therefore I need a bit of flexibility to be able to do that and manage people's expectation. I just need to word my "contract" to make that clear. And I need to change my pricing to say "Freestyle Only - £4".
    It is after all about managing expectations up front, that way everyone will be happy, and you will not get the watch tappers, as it is clear that the lesson may go on to 9.40, but if it finishes at 9.30, there is bonus freestyle time.

    The exception to this being dance weekenders, where there is a workshop immediatly after yours, going over time, puts out the customers, the other teachers and the organisers.

  5. #45
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    Re: Teaching - pet hates

    Quote Originally Posted by geoff332 View Post
    Some of my preferences come from the classes in NZ. They have a couple of things that I find extremely useful. Not all could be transferred here, but some are worth thinking about.[LIST=1][*]All classes last an hour. They start with a warm-up, which basically helps loosen you up and includes invaluable spinning practice (and means most people who've been dancing for more than six months can do an unassisted double spin).
    I think your first point has more to do with NZ law... by law you have to do a warm up. This must be done at the start of the first class.

    One of the companies on the Gold Coast start the beginner lesson at 7.30, but they encorage beginners to "come early". As soon as some people turn up (from about 7.00) the instructor goes through beginner basics, such as basic footwork, spinning, hand-holds etc. This "class" gets bigger and bigger as people arrive. Then at 7.30, they go into the normal beginners class.

  6. #46
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    Re: Teaching - pet loves

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    You do just that on your web site, under the classes information it is stated 9-9.30 for the intermediate class and freestyle starting at 9.30 (tuesdays, wednesdays and thursdays).

    Therefore, for people travelling to your class for the first time, some of them would have read the website and thus expect the lesson timings to be that as stated on the site.
    I'm glad we had this talk. The website is one to the things I need to change to make things clear. There is so much to do in running a MJ business

  7. #47
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    Re: Teaching - pet loves

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I'm glad we had this talk. The website is one to the things I need to change to make things clear. There is so much to do in running a MJ business
    and I am glad you have been so understanding,,, I did expect a flaming, due to my black and white stance on timing.


    I have a lot of respect for how you structured your reply and how you took on board the points [ what ! me agreeing with you ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh]

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    Re: Teaching - pet hates

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    Thinking about the other side... what makes you cringe... about teachers teaching...
    Lots of good points have already been mentioned but I will chip in my tuppence worth.

    With regard to the issue of classes overrunning, this does not in itself bother me as it rarely happens and when it does it's usually only by ten minutes or so at most. Sometimes moves will take slightly longer than planned to teach, for whatever reason; that's life, and a little give & take goes a long way. If a couple of extra minutes is what it takes to cement a move or make sure everyone's doing it safely, so be it. However, 15 minutes or more over and chances are I'm beginning to get antsy, especially if the teacher is labouring a point or hasn't added anything in particular to the lesson to justify the extra time (e.g. technique/safety pointers). I heard of one lesson recently (from more than one source) where the teacher apparently spent around 45 minutes on the beginner class and taught a sum total of one move (because one guy didn't get the move it was gone over and over and over....). Glad I wasn't present for that one!

    My personal bug bear is the overuse of tired old jokes... Now these didn't used to bother me and I'm sure I even found them funny at first, but I'm afraid that classics such as "No, the OTHER left " just aren't funny anymore and really make me cringe! Change the script please! *I want to tear my hair out smilie*

  9. #49
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    Re: Teaching - pet loves

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    I have a lot of respect for how you structured your reply and how you took on board the points [ what ! me agreeing with you ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh]
    I can't remember us ever disagreeing. I'm not sure we'll ever agree about the sense of carrying one woman on each shoulder though

    I wonder how many forumites actually saw that - I was there

    Time for a pointless survey

  10. #50
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    Re: Teaching - pet loves

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I can't remember us ever disagreeing. I'm not sure we'll ever agree about the sense of carrying one woman on each shoulder though

    I wonder how many forumites actually saw that - I was there

    Time for a pointless survey
    I wasn't there and so didn't see it. Must go and vote!


    I would just like to put on record that my grumble about time keeping was not aimed at Andy, as I have never been to the south coast to dance ( but that can change).

    It was aimed at teachers at ceroc London.

    One of them often yaks on for an extra 20 minutes. There used to be a lot of watch tappers, but they stopped going.

  11. #51
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    Re: Teaching - pet loves

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    And I need to change my pricing to say "Freestyle Only - £4".
    So if I turn up to your venue at 7:45 and promise to leave the room or sit quietly at the back during the lesson, and only dance during the "Freestyle" sessions (including the bit between Beginners and Intermediates), then you'll let me in for £4, because I'm doing "Freestyle only"?

    I think it's simpler to state a time.
    Love dance, will travel

  12. #52
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    Re: Teaching - pet loves

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    So if I turn up to your venue at 7:45 and promise to leave the room or sit quietly at the back during the lesson, and only dance during the "Freestyle" sessions (including the bit between Beginners and Intermediates), then you'll let me in for £4, because I'm doing "Freestyle only"?

    I think it's simpler to state a time.
    I always trust my dancers. If they say they're only coming for freestyle then that's all I will charge them for.

    I have the same level of trust with people who fall on hard times through job loss, etc. I let them in for free rather than have them stop coming. I give them an envelope containing 10 free tickets, tell them to ask for more if they need more and ask them to give back any unused tickets when they find a job. As far as I know, nobody has ever abused my generosity. I think it would be the same with somebody who'd paid for freestyle only. They could do the first freestyle, sit out the intermediate chatting with their mates and then join in the second freestyle. And, they are there to be invited to join in the intermediate lesson if we need somebody to even up the numbers a bit.

  13. #53
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    Re: Teaching - pet loves

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I always trust my dancers...
    Fair enough - and all power to you.
    Love dance, will travel

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