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Thread: How do Teachers improve?

  1. #21
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    Re: How do Teachers improve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Face it, teachers have got a tough task. They are expected to be the gods of the dancefloor, come up with new moves/routines every week and they have to communicate all this to punters in a 30 minutes lesson. This against a backdrop of raised expectations from the teachers and dancers seen at weekenders and on YouTube.

    So .. how does you local instructor keep up? I think its clear that to 'stay still is to go backwards'. The problem is severe for indepenent instructors, and yes I'm talking form bitter experience.

    First of all, where do you get all the new moves from. Many instructors have to resort to buying the DVDs of the wekeenders just for this ... but then again so have many of your class so thats not helping you stay ahead.

    Next, how do you improve your teaching style? I'm not aware of anyone running courses for qualified teachers so how do you learn about what principle you should be teaching and what teaching models to use?

    I think that there is a lot to be learnt from watching our US counterparts in Swing and WCS. I probably picked up more about teaching technique than personal dance technique from the time spent in J&T and Lucky & Ruby's workshops. Not everyone though has the luxury of seeing these guys in person ... so, any thoughts?
    Firstly I feel your pain...

    to what Amir and Franck posted

    As to new moves (the first point)
    When sharing a flat with another teacher, she used to get moves from ice skating champs DVD and from us doing Rueda and Salsa and adapting the moves. Also getting together with other teachers to come up with other stuff.
    We also used to plan lessons together, even though we worked for competing companies.
    I also had a day job with Simon de-lisle , which some of the "older" teachers will know of... we also planned lessons together (as in helped each other out), which helped us both to be creative [and yes we did practice in the hall way fortunately our co-workers understood!].

    When I was feeling a bit flat I would do a lot of other dance styles and bring those moves into MJ, along with getting together with other teachers and "jamming" to work out new stuff.

    Doing a lot of routines, both for comps and just for fun, joining in sometimes as a "customer" also gives you new stuff to use. [Just be sure to ask the corrie person that they are happy for you to use the stuff to teach]

    I also went to some of Victors workshops (done in Aussie), some cool moves, when I asked him, he was happy to give me permission to teach them on.

    Point 2, to improve teaching style...

    Anyone doing a workshop on how to teach, such as Andy Mc, I would go if I was in the area, even if you get just one or 2 things out of it.

    I have been a co-instructor, in teaching courses in Aussie, and I learnt a lot even by teaching teachers and getting thier feedback.

    Apart from that, I look at many teachers and if there is anything I like in their style I would see if that would be something to include myself - as I am sure you already do Gus.

    Seperate to teaching normal classes, I learnt the most about teaching lifts, from David and Lily, I had been teaching lifts for some time, but attending a few of thier workshops on this, thier general safety and technique tips are something I took on board and use, they also attended a few of my lifts classes, as helpers and gave me feedback on my teaching style. [thanks guys]


    So mostly, you have to "get out there" network and learn together - or if you are Franck... bring them to you!!

    It does cost in both time and money, but then if you want to be better than the average, that's what ya do

  2. #22
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: How do Teachers improve?

    Gus, I think the main problem is not that there aren't any ways for someone to progress as a dance teacher - there are loads.

    There just aren't any ways that are specific to the MJ market. Which is not surprising, considering there are about 10 MJ teachers in the UK who'd want such progression anyhow.

    So, if you really want to progress, you may want to look outside MJ
    For example:

    ... and so on.

  3. #23
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    Re: How do Teachers improve?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Yeah, but are they "how to teach" courses, or "how to teach better" courses? In other words, are they aimed at people who want to be teachers, or existing teachers who want to move on to the next level?
    You are right (for a change ) my course is an introduction to teaching. Although I have seen some teachers who I think I could coach and help improve I wouldn't run a course for experienced teachers as each person has different learning needs: also, I have a fear that some of the teachers who attended would be better than me

    I would say that many of the improvements I make in my teaching are from watching other teachers running a class. I always join in with the class rather than watch from the back as I find it easier to concentrate on what the teacher is saying and doing. It means you can't take notes, so you need to write down what you pick up immediately after the class. Another drawback of watching a lesson is that people start chatting to you and distract you.

    As Amir says, in terms of improving your dancing you do what everybody does who wants to improve, get lessons. Amir's line "the better you get, the slower you get better" is so true. But that doesn't mean you aren't getting better or that you should stop trying. I think the hardest/slowest thing of all would be to try to improve by working things out on your own. It's so much easier to pick up bits here and there in lessons - and it's much more fun, which is what it should be all about!
    Last edited by Andy McGregor; 1st-November-2007 at 10:39 AM.

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    Re: How do Teachers improve?

    There are also a plethora of courses in things like public speaking, stage presence, clear diction, motivating people, understanding people, coaching people, and suchlike. Seems like all this would help teachers teach better, even if it doesn't help them dance better.

  5. #25
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    Re: How do Teachers improve?

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    There are also a plethora of courses in things like public speaking, stage presence, clear diction, motivating people, understanding people, coaching people, and suchlike. Seems like all this would help teachers teach better, even if it doesn't help them dance better.

    MJ knowledge - even general dance knowledge - is probably a minority of the relevant knowledge for proper dance teaching.

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    Re: How do Teachers improve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Face it, teachers have got a tough task.
    Yup. I am a pupil.

    They are expected to be the gods of the dancefloor
    Nope. Much could be taught from a wheelchair.

    come up with new moves/routines every week
    Nope. They could teach the same stuff every week to a new class that does not know it.

    and they have to communicate all this to punters in a 30 minutes lesson.
    or 45 min, or in a workshop, or over a longer period, but
    30 mininutes sounds like we are talking intermediate class.

    It now seems . This against a backdrop of raised expectations from the teachers and dancers seen at weekenders and on YouTube.
    This is raised expectations from more experienced dancers.

    So .. how does you local instructor keep up? I think its clear that to 'stay still is to go backwards'.
    Nope. If a teacher has reached their apex in teaching a beginners or intermediate class they can continue at the same level to an ever changing audience.


    ...First of all, where do you get all the new moves from. Many instructors have to resort to buying the DVDs of the wekeenders just for this ... but then again so have many of your class so thats not helping you stay ahead.
    The first question you appear to want to ask is how a teacher stays in the vanguard of fashion.

    Invent.

    Next, how do you improve your teaching style? I'm not aware of anyone running courses for qualified teachers so how do you learn about what principle you should be teaching and what teaching models to use?

    I think that there is a lot to be learnt from watching our US counterparts in Swing and WCS. I probably picked up more about teaching technique than personal dance technique from the time spent in J&T and Lucky & Ruby's workshops. Not everyone though has the luxury of seeing these guys in person ... so, any thoughts?
    You have answered your own question. Live in luxury. Or, as T.D. Jakes has put it, "Eagles fly with eagles."
    Last edited by bigdjiver; 1st-November-2007 at 01:36 PM.

  7. #27
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    Re: How do Teachers improve?

    At the freestyle I attended last night Marchant & Davina were doing a demonstration -- I was impressed that one of the accolades that they had earned from the recent congress was that they were "the teachers that had most improved the teaching of salsa in the UK over the previous year".

    It would be great if either the competitions, or weekenders for MJ could come up with a similar award.

    Perhaps, "Voted best teacher(s) at XXXXport" might be an interesting idea -- it might help to raise profile for the teacher(s) and also for XXXXport (or wherever).

    SpinDr

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    Re: How do Teachers improve?

    Quote Originally Posted by spindr View Post
    Perhaps, "Voted best teacher(s) at XXXXport" might be an interesting idea -- it might help to raise profile for the teacher(s) and also for XXXXport (or wherever).
    Of course that would raise the question as to whether the best teachers actually taught at XXXXport, XXXXXspree or XXXXXmildmovement of air.

  9. #29
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    Re: How do Teachers improve?

    As an ex-dance teacher and now a full time Personal Trainer, it kinda' amazes me that people don't go outside of their comfort zones regarding self development.

    Lets be realistic, dance teachers (and PT's) are not the only teachers in the world...so why not try and take good quality teaching methods from any instructor you feel get's their point across well. Why not think about a favourite school teacher...what was it about that teacher that made you like them, why did they stand out in a crowd of otherwise rubbish instructors / teachers / lecturers?

    Just a suggestion

    JB

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    Re: How do Teachers improve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jive Brummie View Post
    Lets be realistic, dance teachers (and PT's) are not the only teachers in the world...so why not try and take good quality teaching methods from any instructor you feel get's their point across well.
    Well, some time back I tried to get some interest on the forum about the application of contemporary teaching ideas, e.g. using NLP. As expected it came to naught but I do have a few 'proper' teachers as mates and I do some work in training so I've trying to work out what techniques I can port across to MJ teaching. I'm particularly interested in the NLP approach. Simon Boreland uses this approach remarkably effectively .... its just going to take time to work out best to incorporate.

    Taking some of the advice given, esp from Amir, I'm trying to get out on the road again and start watching different instructors again. I think it sometimes can get misconstrued .... some think I'm trying to nick their moves () but I'm more interested in how they commnicate with their class.

  11. #31
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    Re: How do Teachers improve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    I'm particularly interested in the NLP approach. Simon Boreland uses this approach remarkably effectively ....
    What does Simon do that's so effective?

    Just recently I've been watching my own teaching having filmed lessons by chance*. And I've been it's been a revelation! There are some things I do that get everyones attention, the usual ones, use of silence, changing the pitch of my voice, etc. And there are some things that seem to prompt people to chat with their partner, mostly repetition and saying when the next dance or workshop is. Is say that filming your teaching is a great too for improvement - although it's painful and embarassing to watch your mistakes

    *The reason I've ended up with films of my teaching is that I've had to change venues on a Thursday night. Our usual venue had the lead stolen off the roof which let in rain and caused a serious fire (re-opens March/April 2008 ). The stage at the new venue is low and I've had to project the lesson onto a large screen - the camera goes on to standby if you don't press "record" so I've ended up with films of me in action.
    Last edited by David Bailey; 6th-November-2007 at 01:48 PM. Reason: fix quote

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    Re: How do Teachers improve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Well, some time back I tried to get some interest on the forum about the application of contemporary teaching ideas, e.g. using NLP. As expected it came to naught but I do have a few 'proper' teachers as mates and I do some work in training so I've trying to work out what techniques I can port across to MJ teaching. I'm particularly interested in the NLP approach. Simon Boreland uses this approach remarkably effectively .... its just going to take time to work out best to incorporate.
    Talk to McJester - I think he has now qualified to train people to teach NLP stuff, so he should be able to point you in the right direction and give you some ideas.

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    Re: How do Teachers improve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    Talk to McJester - I think he has now qualified to train people to teach NLP stuff, so he should be able to point you in the right direction and give you some ideas.
    Luckily one of my teaching mates knows the rudiments of this and an understanding of other learning methods ... but if McJester would like to share that would be great and deeply appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    What does Simon do that's so effective?
    Not sure that SB is effective in himself, but the way he uses his voice, body and imagery to get the class enthusiastic is impressive. I'm not his biggest fan as a complete teacher but you have to acknowledge what he does well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Just recently I've been watching my own teaching having filmed lessons by chance.
    Aye ... once someone is daft enough to let me loose on stage again I need to do the same. Its always an ego-busting experience but vital.

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    Re: How do Teachers improve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Aye ... once someone is daft enough to let me loose on stage again I need to do the same. Its always an ego-busting experience but vital.
    The other thing that seeing myself teach has done is make me realise the importance fo a clear demonstration as well as a clear description of what is going on - that and the fact I look even camper than I thought, which is nice

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    Re: How do Teachers improve?

    Very interested in the NLP related comments - and how this could be applied.

    In essence it is all about modelling success and effectivre communication. Of course, the result/outcome is the acid test of how effective it would be - in dancing terms this is always going to be somewhat subjective.

    Can someone expand on the ideas in terms of practical application?

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    Re: How do Teachers improve?

    Quote Originally Posted by JiveLad View Post
    effectivre communication.
    Oxymoreon altert!

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    Re: How do Teachers improve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Well, some time back I tried to get some interest on the forum about the application of contemporary teaching ideas, e.g. using NLP. As expected it came to naught
    Not sure why it takes the forum's enthusiasm for you to get NLP training?
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: How do Teachers improve?

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    Not sure why it takes the forum's enthusiasm for you to get NLP training?
    I wasn't after NLP training ... I was trying to get together with some experienced instructors to share ideas about improving teaching methods ... in my misguided, youthful exuberance it seemed like a good idea.

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    Re: How do Teachers improve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    youthful
    How long ago was this?

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    Re: How do Teachers improve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    There are some things I do that get everyones attention, the usual ones, use of silence, changing the pitch of my voice, etc. [/I]
    They may seem usual, but they are effective

    Thing is, these points are key, and some teachers, who I am told by others are well respected, do not use these key fundamentals. To the point that when they say rotate, I do not hear them as I have switched off due to the monotone voice and consistant use of the voice.

    Silence and change in tone and pitch - coupled with bodylanguage and enthusiasm (enthusiasm, used in moderation, is infectious) keep the attention and fun levels up. You do not have to shout to do any of this, simply change the state of the room yourself by using these key fundamentals.
    (Gus if you want to get NLP about it, these are also priciples used in NLP )

    When I train other trainers / teachers, sometimes they would say to me "the class is really dead" - I would simply say "who do you think can best change that"?

    One thing I do with the mic is put a fair bit of base on it, as my voice generally is a bit high (compared to how I would like it to come across) - this works well for me.

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