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Thread: What are Teachers and DJs worth?

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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    What are Teachers and DJs worth?

    The boring, and maybe irrelevant background to this thread I was looking at the local teaching market, and how much some operators were paying. The range of experience and expertise is fairly wide, as you may expect. Some teachers are professionally trained, some have many years of teaching experience, some have established themselves on the national market and/or the competition scene .... and of course many have not. Surprisingly though, all the operators seem to pay a flat fee ... regardless of how 'good' the teacher is.

    This I find strange. You would think the law of supply and demand would dictate 'you get what you pay for' .. or does its application mean that its a buyers market and operators can pay as little as they want ... or it could be that operators have realised that you can put any muppet on stage and the punters will some come . I believe a similar market exists for DJs, though there seem to be fewer DJs than teachers.

    So .... do you think teachers should be paid according to how good they are ... or does it not matter and they should be happy to take whatever crusts come their way.

    For point of reference, local rates are generally around the £50 to £60 mark, with one operator paying an exceptional £80

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: What are Teachers and DJs worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Surprisingly though, all the operators seem to pay a flat fee ... regardless of how 'good' the teacher is.
    There's a little variation in London, but not much - and I think it's mostly, like yours, around the £50 - £60 mark.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    or it could be that operators have realised that you can put any muppet on stage and the punters will some come .
    That's a bit harsh, but it's got some truth to it.

    The flipside of having a de facto national minimum standard of MJ teaching (thanks to Ceroc) is that there's little incentive to recruit or reward extra talent - even a newly-qualified teacher will be "good enough", so why pay more?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    So .... do you think teachers should be paid according to how good they are
    Ah, but how do you measure how good they are?

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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: What are Teachers and DJs worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    The flipside of having a de facto national minimum standard of MJ teaching (thanks to Ceroc) is that there's little incentive to recruit or reward extra talent - even a newly-qualified teacher will be "good enough", so why pay more?
    BUT .... Ceroc isn't the national standard ... most of the clubs up North aren't Ceroc ... so there isn't a 'standard'.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Ah, but how do you measure how good they are?
    ahh ... wasn't that covered by your volunteering to head up the Inner Sanctum Assessment Panel?

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    Registered User frodo's Avatar
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    Re: What are Teachers and DJs worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    ...You would think the law of supply and demand would dictate 'you get what you pay for' .. or does its application mean that its a buyers market and operators can pay as little as they want ... or it could be that operators have realised that you can put any muppet on stage and the punters will some come :...
    Perhaps it is different for workshops where attendees are likely to more serious.

    Also for weekenders, though that might depend on whether teaching/DJ line up is advertised in advance.

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    Commercial Operator Sugarfoot's Avatar
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    Re: What are Teachers and DJs worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    There's a little variation in London, but not much - and I think it's mostly, like yours, around the £50 - £60 mark.
    I take it these prices are for local Jive teachers at local venues???

    certainly NOT the case otherwise.

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: What are Teachers and DJs worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    BUT .... Ceroc isn't the national standard ... most of the clubs up North aren't Ceroc ... so there isn't a 'standard'.
    OK then, but they still presumably follow the same model as Ceroc? i.e. teacher-employees rather than teacher-managers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    ahh ... wasn't that covered by your volunteering to head up the Inner Sanctum Assessment Panel?
    Great, thanks for blabbing. Now I'll be deluged by bribes from everyone

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarfoot View Post
    I take it these prices are for local Jive teachers at local venues???
    I think that's the going rate for Ceroc venues, normal class nights.

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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: What are Teachers and DJs worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarfoot View Post
    I take it these prices are for local Jive teachers at local venues???

    certainly NOT the case otherwise.
    What ... do you guys get paid more or less?

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    Re: What are Teachers and DJs worth?

    I guess from a DJ point of view there is a need to continually spend money on enhancing music collection (well I do) and unlikely to actually make anything out of DJ'ing for quite a while unless I take on more nights.

    I am restricted from recovering these expenses outside Ceroc ( which I struggle with in principle) despite no input from Ceroc on my music collection or choice of music (might regret raising this).

    From a teachers point of view they do not have to lay out any costs (please correct me if got this wrong ) and intellectual property of moves is with Ceroc.

    I have experienced many venues and would say that there are some teachers who really put themselves out to make a community out of there venues and seem to go the extra mile to make it work. Not sure whether they are rewarded for it but in my book worth encouraging them to continue building the venue. Same principle should apply for DJ's.

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    Commercial Operator Sugarfoot's Avatar
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    Re: What are Teachers and DJs worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    What ... do you guys get paid more or less?
    Errr...more....

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    Commercial Operator Sugarfoot's Avatar
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    Re: What are Teachers and DJs worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by mick s View Post
    I guess from a DJ point of view there is a need to continually spend money on enhancing music collection (well I do) and unlikely to actually make anything out of DJ'ing for quite a while unless I take on more nights.

    I am restricted from recovering these expenses outside Ceroc ( which I struggle with in principle) despite no input from Ceroc on my music collection or choice of music (might regret raising this).

    From a teachers point of view they do not have to lay out any costs (please correct me if got this wrong ) and intellectual property of moves is with Ceroc.

    I have experienced many venues and would say that there are some teachers who really put themselves out to make a community out of there venues and seem to go the extra mile to make it work. Not sure whether they are rewarded for it but in my book worth encouraging them to continue building the venue. Same principle should apply for DJ's.
    As a teacher and DJ, I would say that the commitment in terms of time and money as well as investment in ones growing ability is equal. Unless the DJ or teacher becomes complacent.

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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: What are Teachers and DJs worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarfoot View Post
    As a teacher and DJ, I would say that the commitment in terms of time and money as well as investment in ones growing ability is equal. Unless the DJ or teacher becomes complacent.
    Hmmmm ... looks like there should be another thread here .. "Who is worth more, Teacher or DJ"?

    Interesting, looks like a fair number of the better DJs are also teachers.

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: What are Teachers and DJs worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarfoot View Post
    Errr...more....
    You're doing well then. Even the topflight "name" DJs and teachers get - at most - £100 for a session with Ceroc, I believe. And when you consider that a DJ's expenses are much more than a teacher's, it's clear that Ceroc employees aren't getting rich.

    Back when Mike Ellard was teaching at the Central Club, I heard he was getting £30 for a night. £30! Things haven't improved much, in other words.

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    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: What are Teachers and DJs worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Back when Mike Ellard was teaching at the Central Club, I heard he was getting £30 for a night. £30! Things haven't improved much, in other words.
    And in those days, £30 quid was a lot of money to a man like Mike.

    ..

    ..

    ..



    Seriously, does anyone in London teach for the money?

  14. #14
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: What are Teachers and DJs worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    And in those days, £30 quid was a lot of money to a man like Mike.
    Indeed, he was barely scraping by...

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    Seriously, does anyone in London teach for the money?
    Hell no - nor DJ for that matter. £50 for 3-5 hours' work?

    Workshops and privates can bring in the cash of course, but class teaching is astonishingly badly-paid.

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    Commercial Operator Sugarfoot's Avatar
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    Re: What are Teachers and DJs worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    You're doing well then. Even the topflight "name" DJs and teachers get - at most - £100 for a session with Ceroc, I believe. And when you consider that a DJ's expenses are much more than a teacher's, it's clear that Ceroc employees aren't getting rich.
    Like all the best DJs I spend a great deal of time searching for different music. I do this because I enjoy it. I get a real buzz when I play a new track and it goes down well. DJs have to invest money and time into their music collection.



    I guess if you are talking about a regular Ceroc type teacher then they don't have the costs of a DJ, but if you teach other dance disciplines then you have to invest in yourself and this generally cost much more than DJing. When you take into account (I know my accountant does) private lessons, travelling, workshops etc. it all adds up. I am currently throwing myself into WCS....£40 a night for fuel plus £7 entry etc...

    Ultimately we do because we love it. It is a lifestyle thing. If you get really good it might pay you back one day….

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