Signals and Manspins!! AHHH

[Steven666]

If you don't care how you, or others do a move, why are you contributing to a technical thread about how to do a move?

By virtue of stating the technical details of such moves is pointless to the majority of people. If it feels right then carry on doing it. It may (and I'm sure often does) feel more comfortable to do it not by the book.

Why should we do every move as they are strictly taught? Is freedom of expression, innovation and improvisation banned in Modern Jive?

[David Bailey]

By virtue of stating the technical details of such moves is pointless to the majority of people. If it feels right then carry on doing it. It may (and I'm sure often does) feel more comfortable to do it not by the book.

Depends what you mean by "technical".

Whilst I agree that the Ceroc Book of Moves is not the only way to do things, and I doubt it's primarily designed with technique in mind, there is still Good Technique and Bad Technique. For example, a clear lead is preferable to a forceful lead.

Why should we do every move as they are strictly taught? Is freedom of expression, innovation and improvisation banned in Modern Jive?

Nope, and we shouldn't.

But we're not talking about "By-the-book" technical, we're talking about "good technique" technical. Well, I am. And, to give him his due, so's Andy .

[Caz]

...aaaaaaaaaand there it is!

getting sense of deja vu now......

need more vodka.......

[ShinyWeeStar]

getting sense of deja vu now......

need more vodka.......

*passes the Haribo*

[Jamie]

Why should we do every move as they are strictly taught? Is freedom of expression, innovation and improvisation banned in Modern Jive?

My version is

[JiveLad]

Back to the original question.

For me that they were taught with signals - but about 6 months ago I dispensed with signals for both man spin and neck break.....and it is fine.

The one signal I do have, is sometimes when leading a man spin I click my finger and point in the direction of my travel and for the women I dance with regularly, they will know that means the next move is likely to be a Hatch Flick, so they can get ready to click their fingers on that move. (I seem to remember StokeBloke doesn't like finger clicks.....so good job I don't dance with him...).

[Andy McGregor]

But we're not talking about "By-the-book" technical, we're talking about "good technique" technical. Well, I am. And, to give him his due, so's Andy .

You are?

[David Bailey]

You are?

Yeah, I generally assume my comments are wonderful examples of perfect prose. It saves time.

[David Bailey]

The one signal I do have, is sometimes when leading a man spin I click my finger and point in the direction of my travel and for the women I dance with regularly, they will know that means the next move is likely to be a Hatch Flick, so they can get ready to click their fingers on that move. (I seem to remember StokeBloke doesn't like finger clicks.....so good job I don't dance with him...).

If I'm leading a lady into something like a travelling return (where she's going behind me), I try to turn my head to briefly glance behind me. Whilst this is mainly a floorcraft / safety thing, it could also be viewed as a signal, and I probably use it as such sometimes if I think it's needed.

[StokeBloke]

Back to the original question.

For me that they were taught with signals - but about 6 months ago I dispensed with signals for both man spin and neck break.....and it is fine.

The one signal I do have, is sometimes when leading a man spin I click my finger and point in the direction of my travel and for the women I dance with regularly, they will know that means the next move is likely to be a Hatch Flick, so they can get ready to click their fingers on that move. (I seem to remember StokeBloke doesn't like finger clicks.....so good job I don't dance with him...).

You click your fingers at your follow, sort of like summoning a waiter to your table... classy

[JiveLad]

You click your fingers at your follow, sort of like summoning a waiter to your table... classy

I never need to do that - I exude 'restaurant presence' and they come very quickly (in a manner of speaking).

[Jamie]

The one signal I do have, is sometimes when leading a man spin I click my finger and point in the direction of my travel and for the women I dance with regularly, they will know that means the next move is likely to be a Hatch Flick, so they can get ready to click their fingers on that move. (I seem to remember StokeBloke doesn't like finger clicks.....so good job I don't dance with him...).

Why would that be a signal though? You can still lead the move without a clicky signal because you first need to signal for a Hatch Flick Barrier with your left hand behind your back in a half nelson position anyway

[Whitebeard]

If I'm leading a lady into something like a travelling return (where she's going behind me), I try to turn my head to briefly glance behind me. Whilst this is mainly a floorcraft / safety thing, it could also be viewed as a signal, and I probably use it as such sometimes if I think it's needed.

Yes; and when I'm leading a lady forward to initiate a sway I find myself glancing down to where my hand will be at the end of the count (which may even be, more or less, on the 'beat' ;-)

[StokeBloke]

Why would that be a signal though? You can still lead the move without a clicky signal because you first need to signal for a Hatch Flick Barrier with your left hand behind your back in a half nelson position anyway

So you're saying what... it's more of a preparation than a signal? :ducks:

[tanjive]

My opinion is neither of those two moves need signals. The manspin is more a prep as the lead is guiding the lady forward. The move is basically a shoulder slide with the guys left hand at shoulder not waist height. The neckbreak I shortcut which removes the Indian How look.

I don't generally like signals. I feel you should be able to do all social moves (minus drops) with virtually all partners if the lead is positive enough.

There are two moves I have come across that are really difficult to start. Both of which are advanced intermediate.

1) Getting the lady to raise a knee in order to get a hand hold under the knee. Not easy without some kind of signal (verbal or otherwise).

2) Leading the lady to slide on her heels, like the move where the lady goes under between the guys legs. You can have the variant of blocking the lady in front and bringing her up without the full slide through.

I only do these once in a long time, because I do not like the signalling.

Interested in if others have methods to these with or without a signal.

[JiveLad]

So you're saying what... it's more of a preparation than a signal? :ducks:

Yeah it is more like preparation and warming up your partner....I call it Ceroc-freeplay (as opposed to foreplay)

I'm sure you two (StokeB and Jamie) have got some more moves in that ilk......

[David Bailey]

Interested in if others have methods to these with or without a signal.

My opinion is that you can only lead that sort of movement if the follower is actually following - that is, is obeying the conventions of dance.

The leg-swinging thing, for example, requires some degree of dissociation from the follower, which most followers in MJ simply don't have (or even know about, to be honest).

The hell-slide thing requires intense connection and very precise leading, but I imagine it's still theoretically doable as a lead-and-follow move.

[DavidY]

If I'm leading a lady into something like a travelling return (where she's going behind me), I try to turn my head to briefly glance behind me. Whilst this is mainly a floorcraft / safety thing, it could also be viewed as a signal, and I probably use it as such sometimes if I think it's needed.

I do try to look in advance to where I'm about to lead someone - to the extent where even a Beginner of 2/3 weeks noticed me doing it this week: "so if you look in that direction then that's where I'm about to go?"

But I did point out that if that glance reveals that there's someone in the way, I would lead a different move instead - so it's best not to rely on it as a signal.