Signals and Manspins!! AHHH

[ducasi]

Purely visual lead while maintaining a flashlight position - sounds like modern WCS nirvana.

[StokeBloke]

I recall when I first started dancing, on the two times through to music bit the 'teacher' calling out the names of the moves, and saying "Manspin... don't forget your SIGNAL". Like it or loathe it.... if you stick your right hand out, palm down, at waist height, then your follow will understand that to mean a Manspin is about to commence. However they dress it up at CTA.... it's a frappin' signal matey

Look what good ol' Mr. Webster says about the word in his English Dictionary:

sig.nal \'sig-n*l\ n [ME, fr. MF, fr. ML signale, fr. LL, neut. of signalis of a sign, f]r. L signum archaic 1: TOKEN, INDICATION 2a: an act, event, or watchword that has been agreed upon as the occasion of concerted action 2b: something that incites to action 3a: a sound or gesture made to give warning or command 3b: an object placed to convey notice or warning 4: an object (as a flag on a pole) centered over a point so as to be observed from other positions in surveying 5a: an object used to transmit or convey information beyond the range of human voice 5b: the sound or image conveyed in telegraphy, telephony, radio, radar, or television 5c: a detectable physical quantity or impulse (as a voltage, current, or magnetic field strength) by which messages or information can be transmitted.

As you can easily physically lead the move without the 'preparation', the preparation is redundant..... unless of course by preparation you mean that you are preparing the follow for the ensuing Manspin by signaling to them




And F F S Jamie... drunk or not..... when an arm is placed in the HOW position for a neck break SIGNAL it does NOT put the lead's hand at shoulder height!!! Arghhhhh it's more like temple height!!!!!

[ShinyWeeStar]

In your opinion, is the manspin (Beat 1) "Leaders: step back raising your right hand above waist level with your palm facing the floor" bit a "preparation" or a "signal"?

However they dress it up at CTA.... it's a frappin' signal matey


And F F S Jamie... drunk or not..... when an arm is placed in the HOW position for a neck break SIGNAL it does NOT put the lead's hand at shoulder height!!! Arghhhhh it's more like temple height!!!!!

Lol, anyone else getting a sense of deja vu? Let me know when the shouting starts so I can cover my ears this time...

[robd]

Prior to a manspin I will tend to put my right hand out to the side (palm facing down). I don't regard this as a signal - more a prep for me to wind up to do 1.5 turns whilst travelling (but not travelling so far as to be unable to take my partners hand when on the other side)

I really don't think the manspin needs a signal as all that you are leading is a simple step forward for the follower surely.

[Caz]

Lol, anyone else getting a sense of deja vu? Let me know when the shouting starts so I can cover my ears this time...

was the final score 3 - 1 or 4 - 0?????


I did nearly crack out laughing tho last night on stage when Jamie taught a manspin... also on the yo-yo - place your hands in an elbow to elbow position "at shoulder height" became quite amusing....

[Andy McGregor]

I've led followers for entire dances in MJ with no physical contact

I think you will find that they were running away. That wasn't a dance, that was a chase

[David Bailey]

I think you will find that they were running away. That wasn't a dance, that was a chase

Well, it gave me good practice in walking forwards at least.

[Gav]

I went to a class at Just Jivin' last night and I was reminded about this thread.
The beginners class teacher was pretty awful (if you're that teacher or a rep from Just Jivin', I'll justify that statement if you ask).
Apart from that, everything was a signal!

Move 1: Lead your lady back and turn yourself to the side. That's a signal that you're about to do a left handed comb.
Move 2: Put your right arm out to the side, palm down. That's a signal for ... a figure of 8! Not only a signal, but the same one that everyone else uses for a manspin!
Move 3: Right handed hold, as you step back turn your hand to face upwards. That's a signal for a catapult.

FWIW, I did have a few lovely dances and the floor at Cheshunt was very, very good for a change.

[Steven666]

Move 3: Right handed hold, as you step back turn your hand to face upwards. That's a signal for a catapult.

Ah the right handed hooked grip. Annoys the hell out of me. It just isn't needed at all. It serves no purpose other than to hurt your wrist and to yank the follower forward like a bowling a real cricket ball. But I have seen it taught for all right handed moves so how it signals anything is beyond me.

[David Franklin]

Prior to a manspin I will tend to put my right hand out to the side (palm facing down). I don't regard this as a signal - more a prep for me to wind up to do 1.5 turns whilst travelling (but not travelling so far as to be unable to take my partners hand when on the other side)

Slightly OT, but how do you do a 1.5 (or 2.5 etc) turn manspin while dancing slotted? In other words, how can you do it while moving out of the slot to let the follower go by, and moving back into the slot at the end?

[Steven666]

Slightly OT, but how do you do a 1.5 (or 2.5 etc) turn manspin while dancing slotted? In other words, how can you do it while moving out of the slot to let the follower go by, and moving back into the slot at the end?

With me the lady recognises that I'm about to do it and moves out of the way or simply goes of tangent or I spin slightly more to the left rather than in front. But I don't see MJ being a perfectly slotted dance anyway. Not like WCS.

[Andy McGregor]

Slightly OT, but how do you do a 1.5 (or 2.5 etc) turn manspin while dancing slotted? In other words, how can you do it while moving out of the slot to let the follower go by, and moving back into the slot at the end?

Simple, when you step back you step back and to the left. Then you will be travelling past the slot and parallel to it. As you lead the lady past you place her hand on your waist to start her turning as you go past her. If you've prepared you right hand, in a non-signal , it will be in exactly the right place to collect the lady's right hand. Depending on the next move you plan to exectute you may choose to stay to the side of the slot, step back into it or step across to the other side of it - for example, if you were, for some unknown reason, doing another manspin.

[Andy McGregor]

With me the lady recognises that I'm about to do it and moves out of the way or simply goes of tangent or I spin slightly more to the left rather than in front. But I don't see MJ being a perfectly slotted dance anyway. Not like WCS.

It isn't perfectly slotted like WCS because there are many rotational moves - that's what makes MJ a better and more versatile dance . But, if you dance well, your cross-body moves can be danced slotted. It just requires you to move your body out of the slot to allow the lady to travel down her slot. If you are leading the lady diagonally past you in the manspin you are not leading the lady straight forward, you are leading her to your right by taking your hand across your body, this means that the lady's hand will not be easy to place on your waist for the body lead and the move will not be exectuted well.

[Steven666]

It isn't perfectly slotted like WCS because there are many rotational moves - that's what makes MJ a better and more versatile dance . But, if you dance well, your cross-body moves can be danced slotted. It just requires you to move your body out of the slot to allow the lady to travel down her slot. If you are leading the lady diagonally past you in the manspin you are not leading the lady straight forward, you are leading her to your right by taking your hand across your body, this means that the lady's hand will not be easy to place on your waist for the body lead and the move will not be exectuted well.

It's difficult to explain what I do without you actually seeing it. But as far as I'm concerned the transition is smooth (assuming I'm on a good spinning day).

As for slots, 9/10 followers choose not to go down it when I move out of the way on any move. Sad but true.

[David Franklin]

Simple, when you step back you step back and to the left.

That's an obvious solution, thanks. (I guess this is a move that's both ingrained enough and happens quickly enough that I was just stuck in a rut of old-style thinking).

[Andy McGregor]

As for slots, 9/10 followers choose not to go down it when I move out of the way on any move. Sad but true.

In a lead and follow dance, when leading a move you are not giving your partner choices You should be giving them a clear lead. That clear lead is to move forwards down the slot. If they are not doing so it's either because they are poor followers or because they are not receiving a clear lead.

In my experience, even total novices will step straight forward if you lead them straight forward. I dance with hundreds of ladies each month and have yet to find more than one or two who do not follow a clear lead to travel straight forward down their slot - those wayward ladies are usually the ones who are trying to do some other dance while you are leading Modern Jive.

[Andy McGregor]

(assuming I'm on a good spinning day)

Am I the only one who is starting to worry about this?

[Steven666]

In a lead and follow dance, when leading a move you are not giving your partner choices You should be giving them a clear lead. That clear lead is to move forwards down the slot. If they are not doing so it's either because they are poor followers or because they are not receiving a clear lead.

In my experience, even total novices will step straight forward if you lead them straight forward. I dance with hundreds of ladies each month and have yet to find more than one or two who do not follow a clear lead to travel straight forward down their slot - those wayward ladies are usually the ones who are trying to do some other dance while you are leading Modern Jive.

In my experience most novices don't aim to get in too close and stepping straight forward into the slot makes them think they have to do that even when the lead has clearly stepped out of the way.

But when you say clear lead I assume you mean clear and not wrestle.

Am I the only one who is starting to worry about this?

Nah. I worry too!

[Andy McGregor]

In my experience most novices don't aim to get in too close and stepping straight forward into the slot makes them think they have to do that even when the lead has clearly stepped out of the way.

Maybe they're different in the North West. However, I've danced with people from all over the country, including the North West, and never found a problem like Steven666 is experiencing.

[Steven666]

Maybe they're different in the North West. However, I've danced with people from all over the country, including the North West, and never found a problem like Steven666 is experiencing.

How do you define a clear lead? Do you use a firm lead?